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2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Paul on Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:21 pm

:hihi:
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Ciro Pabón on Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:48 pm

Sinister wrote:Heres hoping this weekend will be tragedy-free in motorsports.

I'll light a candle, in case.

Wonderful picture, grunf. I see troubles ahead: the tongue is clearly flexing! He might be penalized.

Pup's tail seems better than HRT's and F1 cars should use lights like those. You might have seen these, for example:

McLaren shows new lights for F1 cars


Dev wrote:Well, he's not wrong. For a start, the other guys in front of him could all get penalized too. :p


Sure, Dev, you're right. What was I thinking? :)
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Guy with a Beer on Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:44 am

Still baffled by the decision to give Massa a penalty... Surely that was between 50/50 and 45/55 leaning towards Hamilton at fault not Massa.
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Paul on Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:00 pm

Guy with a Beer wrote:Still baffled by the decision to give Massa a penalty... Surely that was between 50/50 and 45/55 leaning towards Hamilton at fault not Massa.


Too right Mate.. Where the heck else could he do but turn in on his line.

Maybe they gave Massa the penalty so that he didnt bitch quite so much after the race :hihi:
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Paolo 2 on Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:01 pm

Guy with a Beer wrote:Still baffled by the decision to give Massa a penalty... Surely that was between 50/50 and 45/55 leaning towards Hamilton at fault not Massa.


50/50? and what was Massa supposed to do? I have defended Hamilton many times this season, I still think that he is - by quite some margin - the best out there and that on occasion (i.e. Singapore) he was punished for just being Hamilton, but IMHO today it was totally his fault, Massa - who was in front - had two choices: turn in or take the escape route. Since he was ahead I can't quite understand why he had to take the escape route :confused: this accident could have very easily been avoided, it's not as if Hamilton had to spin or go straight into a wall :loser: besides, you can clearly see from Hamilton's in car footage that he had started to brake before Massa did, so why on earth didn't he just finish to brake, slot behind Massa and pass him on the next lap :roll: :roll: :roll: I was expecting a black flag for Hamilton and possibly a 3 races ban (IMHO fully deserved and now long overdue), what he did was really bad, instead they punished good old Felipe :rotflmao: I mean what's the reason for this penalty? the fact that he dared to start the race? :rotflmao: :rotflmao: I see no other valid reason for his drive through :confused: :confused:
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Ciro Pabón on Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:46 pm

It's worrying to see Ham crashing again and again. Simoncelli (rest in peace) followed the same pattern of crashing everybody and his dog.
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Lyria on Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:51 pm

Guy with a Beer wrote:Still baffled by the decision to give Massa a penalty... Surely that was between 50/50 and 45/55 leaning towards Hamilton at fault not Massa.


I agree with you, Massa had the racing line, where the hell was he meant to go when Hamilton tried to force his way through? Stupid decision as far as I can see but there you go.

Another great drive by Vettel, he wasn't troubled all race was he? Button did his best but it just wasn't good enough.

Loved Mr Bean's reaction to the Massa/Hamilton incident :hihi: Also liked when Vettel put champagne in his winners trophy/big cup and drank from it. Oh and if he didn't know it before Adrian Newey found out just how fizzy that champagne is, the look on his face after he took a drink was a picture ^o^
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby grunf77 on Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:29 pm

Interestingly, I am with Hamster this time (not a fan), I think Hamster was well parallel to him, but Massa decided that was not enough and closed the door. Of-course lately both drive like idiots :monkey: but that's luxury you have when you don't fight for WDC. :cop: If this were some other 2 drivers I would left it like racing incident, but these two have long history. :paul:

From the horses mouth :
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95808
AUTOSPORT was there when Massa gave his side of the story afterwards.

Felipe Massa Q. What is your view of the Lewis incident?

Felipe Massa: My view is that I was in front, I braked later than him and I was in front, I was on the grippy area as well and then I started to turn and I didn't see him on the left as he was behind. He touched my rear wheel. So, to be honest I don't understand why I have the penalty. It is not really understandable.

Q. This is six incidents between you two now. Is it now a feud?

FM: Maybe for him. Because all the incidents are that he touched my car. So, I didn't do anything wrong. When I saw that he put the car on my side, what am I doing? It was very dirty in his place, so I braked on the clean side, the grippy side, I brake later than him and I start to turn and he is behind me.

If it is Lewis or not Lewis, whatever the driver is there, I would do the same. I am on the good grip. Whoever is trying to overtake in that place he will brake later than me and I cannot do anything, but in this case I braked, I was in front of him and he touched me behind, so it is nothing to do with [it being] him, it is something... he touched me.

Q. He said he tried to bring an end to hostilities after the minute's silence?

FM: No, he didn't try. He didn't try to do anything. When I tried to speak to him he passed through. He did not look to my face, so no. Not here. Here after the one minute silence he was at my side and then he just said, 'have a good race'. So this is trying to what? Have a good race? Is that not part of talking, or whatever?

Q. You say you didn't see Lewis, but watching the replay since it seems to indicate you looked three times in mirrors?

FM: I know he was on my side. But when I braked, this is the important place, not when you are on the straight. When I braked, he was not on my side. So, I turned because I braked later than him. I cannot understand why I am supposed to back off and let him by, no? I braked later. He was on the dirty side. And then I turned and he touched me from behind. He did not touch on my side, or wheel-to-wheel. If it was wheel-to-wheel I would not try to close the door.

Q. Why did you see the stewards?

FM: The explanation is that they say when Lewis went on your side, you went to the right, and I said yes because I went to the grippy place. This is the only explanation they gave me because they were not so sure as well.

Q. Every time there are incidents with Lewis, there will obviously be questions. What can be done to sort this out?

FM: To be honest, it is nothing from me and myself. When I felt it was already too much, what he was doing, he didn't want to speak. So for me, nothing.

Q. Why so much bad blood between you and Lewis?

FM: I don't have anything against him.

Q. So what will you say if you meet him?

FM: If I saw him I would tell you what I am telling you now... I don't have anything. I have nothing against him. Zero. Zero.
Listen, it was hard enough to drive those heavy old cars back then under normal circumstances, but with a crazed monkey clawing you at the same time, it becomes nearly impossible! http://www.timflock.com/jocko.htm
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby grunf77 on Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:42 pm



Battle was lost for Massa on the straight, I think he should have left more space for Lewis once Lewis went ''inside'' of him.
Reminds me of this season Monaco Hamster/Schumy overtaking and Hamster/Maldonado crash or was that Massa :propeller: :eek: .


http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/ind-document-45.pdf
Listen, it was hard enough to drive those heavy old cars back then under normal circumstances, but with a crazed monkey clawing you at the same time, it becomes nearly impossible! http://www.timflock.com/jocko.htm
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby flatin on Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:08 pm

grunf77 wrote:
Battle was lost for Massa on the straight, I think he should have left more space for Lewis once Lewis went ''inside'' of him.
Reminds me of this season Monaco Hamster/Schumy overtaking and Hamster/Maldonado crash or was that Massa :propeller: :eek: .


http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/ind-document-45.pdf


Grunf77, I think your were watching a different race :rotflmao:
even if hamilton did catch up on the straight the reality is he did not make enough ground to get along side massa for the corner, if you look it at the video you can clealry see that hamilton braked first and massa was in front going into the corner, given the dirty condition of the track massa just kept the racing line as he is entitled to .
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby grunf77 on Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:25 pm

flatin wrote:
grunf77 wrote:
Battle was lost for Massa on the straight, I think he should have left more space for Lewis once Lewis went ''inside'' of him.
Reminds me of this season Monaco Hamster/Schumy overtaking and Hamster/Maldonado crash or was that Massa :propeller: :eek: .


http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/ind-document-45.pdf


Grunf77, I think your were watching a different race :rotflmao:


Well, that's solved then, thank you for contribution.
Listen, it was hard enough to drive those heavy old cars back then under normal circumstances, but with a crazed monkey clawing you at the same time, it becomes nearly impossible! http://www.timflock.com/jocko.htm
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby southermagu on Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:46 pm

I'm sorry, but if you can't get through the corner, you need to let the other guy go. In this case, Massa was in a far more precarious position than Hamilton.

More importantly, you can only have the racing line if there isn't a car there. If Hamilton had locked up his brakes he would have taken them both out.

I recall Jimmy Vasser doing something similar in a CART race at Mid-Ohio 15 years ago. He's excuse essentially boiled down to "Well, that's not a traditional passing zone!".

It was stupid then, it's stupid now.
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Paolo 2 on Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:20 pm

southermagu wrote:I'm sorry, but if you can't get through the corner, you need to let the other guy go. In this case, Massa was in a far more precarious position than Hamilton.

More importantly, you can only have the racing line if there isn't a car there. If Hamilton had locked up his brakes he would have taken them both out.

I recall Jimmy Vasser doing something similar in a CART race at Mid-Ohio 15 years ago. He's excuse essentially boiled down to "Well, that's not a traditional passing zone!".

It was stupid then, it's stupid now.


Ah, Grunf wasn't the only one watching another race 8) :piparty: seriously, the video is perfectly clear, Hamilton wasn't totally alongside Massa, he braked earlier than Massa (and therefore, at that stage, Massa was well ahead of Hamilton), he had plenty of space to brake a bit further (which he didn't and you can clearly see that), he didn't and hit Massa. End of the story. Had Hamilton hit Massa's front tyre I might have agreed that they were both at fault, but as Hamilton hit Massa's rear with his front tyre that settles the argument. And I'm not even going into explaining why Massa couldn't left Hamilton more room as I presume that you all noticed how dirty the track was outside of the racing line. Hamilton tried, he realised that he wasn't going to make it, backed up, then had a second thought, went longer under braking and hit poor Felipe who had the only fault of having outbraked Hamilton (not a mean task if you ask me) and was in front of him
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Paolo 2 on Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:28 pm

southermagu wrote:I'm sorry, but if you can't get through the corner, you need to let the other guy go.


that's quite a double hedged argument since Hamilton couldn't get through the corner (without hitting another car) so he should have let Massa through ;) my understanding is that in F1 the car in front has a reasonable expectation of taking the racing line, maybe it was different with CART (could that be one of the reasons why we still have F1 and CART has long gone? I wouldn't be very keen to watch a sport where the guy behind has the right to ask the guy in front to get off the track to let him through, that would be odd, wouldn't it?)
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Paul on Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:17 pm

Have to agree Paolo.

As Hamilton said over the radio " He didn't give me space" .. Well Duuuuh What space? Massa either took his legitimate racing line , being in front, or he ended his race by going off track to suit Hamilton..
No brainer in my book, no matter who your driver preference might be, which in my case is neither 8)
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