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2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Paolo 2 on Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:03 pm

grunf77 wrote:when another driver is alongside you (in this case I would say 2/3 of the car) the defending driver has also responsibility to leave some room so other can ''survive'', and if Massa lost his position cos he had to go bit wider, it's not tragedy, it's racing and good risk management.



don't leave this discussion Grunf, it's the only interesting thing about yesterday's race :yaynot:

anyway, don't you think that your argument could easily be reversed so that the attacking driver is required to leave a bit of room for the defending driver to survive? Massa didn't any have many options: he either took the turn or went off the track...

If you think about it the rule about the car in front being allowed to take the racing line is there to prevent this kind of things happening: when there's no room for 2 cars the one in front has the right to go first. (And Hamilton had the time and space to avoid this one without losing any ground ;) )
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Dev on Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:28 am

I agree that the stewards made the right call this time. That's not just bias, as I accept that past altercations with Massa was at times the fault of Lewis as well.
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Sinister on Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:18 am

Pastor Maldonaldo awarded penalty for Abu Dhabi race. :thumbs:



Pastor Maldonado will lose ten places on the grid for the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix as he will be forced to use his ninth engine of the season.

His Williams team said on Tuesday that due to the damage his engine suffered in India because of a gearbox failure, Maldonado will be unable to use that power unit anymore.

Therefore Williams will forced to use a ninth engine for the Venezuelan in the following race in Abu Dhabi.

Teams are limited to eight engines per season, meaning Maldonado will be hit with a ten-place grid penalty in the Yas Marina event.

Team-mate Rubens Barrichello will be using his eighth engine of the season in Abu Dhabi.
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Mafia on Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:00 pm

Dev wrote:I agree that the stewards made the right call this time.


On what ground? :confused:

Was hamilton ahead of Massa? NO

Did Hamilton had the racing line? NO

Consider yourself in Massa's place, You had the line, you are infront, Would you let go the guy behind? HELL NO

Did people laugh at stewards (Herbert's) decission? HELL YEA, EVEN BRUNDLE and DC
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Mafia on Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:21 pm

Rubbish from Herbert :max:
If Massa had not gone wide – that would have been a different scenario altogether. If there had been contact then, the blame would have been Hamilton’s. But as it happened, the incident could have been avoided. Massa knew where Hamilton was, he opened the door for him by moving wide, and after doing that he still swept across and did not give Hamilton room. That’s why the decision was made to punish him with a drive-through penalty,” concluded Herbert.


:banghead:

So all the drivers taking wide approach (The right approach, apart from lewis) toward that corner were wrong?. Image below shows the two different lines taken by drivers (Silver = Hamilton, Red = Massa). I'll leave it to you all Racers, (Including Sim racers too) to decide which line, do you think is obvious.
fi.jpg
fi.jpg (18.78 KiB) Viewed 2946 times


If thats the way johnny thinks (Ohh and i just happen to recall his "Same" philosophy at SPA 1995. Somebody remind him what happened when he tried to take the line which was as similar as lewis's last saturday?), He'll never become race steward again! For sure
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:45 pm

Massa - Hamilton, Part Six. Of all those contacts, how many have started with Hamilton in front vs Hamilton being the overtaker?

When racing, it is the overtaking driver's responsibility to ensure the pass is made cleanly and without contact. (notwithstanding any deliberate Schumacher-esque shenanigans, of course) That's true in karts, FFord, F3, GP2, sports cars, IndyCars, etc. At the turn-in point, if you are anything less than fully alongside (front wheel to front wheel, cockpit to cockpit) it is up to YOU to yield and leave space, because unless you get to that point you are still behind and the position belongs to the other car. Having barely three feet of your car up the inside emphatically does NOT constitute being 'alongside' in any meaningful sense.

The only two decisions that would have made any sense in this case were 'racing incident' or penalty to Hamilton.

BE THAT AS IT MAY........ Massa is still an idiot. It does you no good as a driver to be 'right' if it means turning in on a car that's overlapping you a skosh and then getting shouldered off the track. It's especially egregious when this sort of decision making takes place when drivers are on the outside, as you are particularly vulnerable to the poor choices of your fellow competitors in that relative position. Drivers have to react situationally and Massa has the situational awareness of a mule cadaver. I'm reminded of Hunt-Andretti at Zandvoort in '77 or '78 (even tho that incident took place at corner exit, the same situational awareness applies)

Hamilton this year reminds me very much of the heydays of Paul Tracy, but without the Canadian's famed cerebral approach to motor racing. ( :monkey: )

So all that said, perhaps the best outcome would have been to dink both of them with a penalty for general stupidity.
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby grunf77 on Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:00 pm

:clap:
Listen, it was hard enough to drive those heavy old cars back then under normal circumstances, but with a crazed monkey clawing you at the same time, it becomes nearly impossible! http://www.timflock.com/jocko.htm
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:01 pm

And another thing.....

I [Martin Brundle] agree with tifosi77 of grandprix.com

Massa was penalised for the subsequent contact because he was looking in his mirror and so was deemed to have seen the other car.

That is nonsense - at 180mph, you have to look in your mirror and make a split-second judgement call as to whether it is your corner or not depending on exactly where the other car is.

I wrote this column on the plane back from Delhi and around me were drivers and team principals, along with other people I respect, and nobody can understand the Massa drive-through penalty.

I stand by my instant call in the commentary box that it was a racing incident - as Hamilton himself described it.

Massa should have left more room but Hamilton should have eased out of the throttle - in that particular bend. There is no point in risking another front-wing change there unless you are fully alongside and have claimed the corner.
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Lyria on Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:08 pm

tifosi77 wrote:And another thing.....

I [Martin Brundle] agree with tifosi77 of grandprix.com

Massa was penalised for the subsequent contact because he was looking in his mirror and so was deemed to have seen the other car.

That is nonsense - at 180mph, you have to look in your mirror and make a split-second judgement call as to whether it is your corner or not depending on exactly where the other car is.

I wrote this column on the plane back from Delhi and around me were drivers and team principals, along with other people I respect, and nobody can understand the Massa drive-through penalty.

I stand by my instant call in the commentary box that it was a racing incident - as Hamilton himself described it.

Massa should have left more room but Hamilton should have eased out of the throttle - in that particular bend. There is no point in risking another front-wing change there unless you are fully alongside and have claimed the corner.


And so he should agree with you ;)

I read that and thought it made sense too 8)
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Ciro Pabón on Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:01 am

Oh, Lyria, come to your senses: we all know Tif is joking.

Simple: Martin Brundle is a moron, he has no idea of what he says. You can bet Brundle will be wrong 100% of the time.

Tif knows what he says. You can bet Tif will be right 100% of the time.

So, this Universe would fall into chaos and would be destructed by quantum paradoxical fluctuations if Tif and Brundle agree on anything.

(Oh, c'mon. You know what I'm talking about: the old and well known quantum paradoxical fluctuactions, duh).

As the Universe is still here (Hello? Is anybody listening?), Tif must be joking. It's impossible for him and Brundle to agree on anything.

Brundle and Tif agree = cataclysm. PLEASE, DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME
Image

Of course, Ham is blind and Massa is an azzwhole, but that's an entirely different issue.
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:47 pm

The other BBC driver analyst, David Coulthard, has also come out publicly in defense of Massa.
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Ciro Pabón on Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:05 pm

tifosi77 - emphasis by Ciro wrote:The other BBC driver analyst, David Coulthard, has also come out publicly in defense of Massa.


Well, don't get me wrong. I agree with you (as always! Have we ever disagreed?). My best explanation for the quantum paradox being solved is that Brundle was lying: he doesn't agree with you in secret, so he's wrong anyway. After all, the Universe is still here.

I'm not talking about Massa or Hamilton, only about the impossibility of Brundle being right (or any BBC commentator, btw). The only way they might be right is by mistake or deceit.
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Re: 2011 Indian Grandprix Weekend

Postby Funkmother on Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:23 am

I consider both Tiff and Martin to be sane intelligent people ergo the universe must not exist in your book. :eerie: :noway:
The metaphorical inuendo flows like chalk.
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