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2011 Canadian GP Weekend

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Re: 2011 Canadian GP Weekend

Postby Dev on Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:40 am

I don't blame Button for coming together with Hamilton. I don't think he had any intent of pushing his teammate off, and I for one don't think Lewis intended to do likewise. However, it was a pretty stupid place to attempt to pass someone, and on that count Lewis is definitely guilty, IMHO.

Lyria wrote:4. Only if we the viewers get the milk and cookies too! Maybe we could get Bernie to do it, he's all for adding things to make the viewing of F1 better :reallyevil:
5. Yes, how that poor marshall didn't get run over is anyone's guess. Bet he needed clean trousers after that :hihi:
7. Well now you've done it, he'll probably get the sack now you've said that :roll:
8. I blame Rihanna, Dev and Sinister for the rain :p


4. You do know that if that happens, Bernie will end up charging a 1000 quid for a box of biscuits?
5. He was wearing dark coloured pants, so we'll never know. :hihi:
7. Damn, and here I was just getting to like the guy. ^o^
8. Bah, I hate how it's always my fault. I blame Half. :loser:
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Re: 2011 Canadian GP Weekend

Postby Sinister on Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:08 am

Dev wrote:I don't blame Button for coming together with Hamilton.



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Re: 2011 Canadian GP Weekend

Postby Dev on Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:24 am

grunf77 wrote:
Dev wrote:Abut I have been away, enjoying myself.


We don't need to know that information. :hit: :hihi:


I know it makes your day, dude. :hit:
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Re: 2011 Canadian GP Weekend

Postby Paolo 2 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:38 pm

a few days have now gone, the race was interesting, IMHO it highlighted the weaknesses of modern day F1 as well as what could be achived if they let drivers race each other. Anyway, a limited review (sorry but I'm very busy at work recently)

Button - he did ok, I don't want to say that he had a great race because he was faring very poorly in the first half of the race, he then had 2 debateble accidents (with Alonso I think that they should have punished him, with Hamilton I think that in pure sporting terms he's to blame, I'm not sure if the current regulations imply a sanction for such a behaviour). Finally, when his car was untouchable he managed to pass all the field and take the victory. Having said that he passed Schumahcer thanks to the DRS and Vettel drove off the road, so Button's real strenght was not to make mistakes, rather than a great drive

Vettel - he's very quick but he's still prone to make silly mistakes, he needs to improve his racecraft as nowadays he's average on that front. Hia car looked quite good in all conditions, the fact that he didn't manage to build up a sufficient buffer after the last SC restart probably means that he was to blame, not the car

Webber - he had his race ruined by Hamilton at the first corner, after that he did ok but again notwitstanding th fact that his car was considerably quicker he couldn't overtake an old man driving a third rate car, until he was able to use the push to pass button... not the best of things to say about a racing driver...

Schumahcer - IMHO he was the best out there last Sunday, I was mighty impressed by his race, I think that he drove very very well, he didn't punt anyone out of the road, fought with passion when he had to do so, was really impressive under braking during the dice with Webber. Overall I'd say that it was an inspired performance by him. Which leads us to a few questions: why doesn't he push like that any other Sunday? Why bother when it seems impossible to gain a single podium with that stinker of a car? personally I'd go back to Switzerland and enjoy my money, I don't quite understand why he still bothers to turn up to F1 races when all he can get with that car is a 4th place...

Hamilton - I know that he didn't finish 5th, who cares, he deservs a few words. His race wasn't the best he had in his career, punting Webber wasn't great, and soldiering on with a broken down car was even worse. Having said I have already made clear that IMHO he's not to blame for the crsh with Button and that I'm glad that there's at one driver out there willing to give it all and try any time he's ot a chance. I think that Hamilotn's main problem are his peers: they're not real racers and they can't keep up wioth him.But as soon as he finds a decent racer things turn great: his dice with Schumacher was very nice to watch, and Schumacher is probably the only driver out there who can race with him.

The Stewards - I was appaled by the decisions that they took... first of all I don't agree with starting the race under SC, then I find the 2 hours wait to restart the race ridiculous, when they restarted most of water had gone and they could use intermed tyres! Then there's the total failure to have any sort of consistency in applying the rules: there were at least 2 accidents that, according to the standards set in the first part of the season, should have been punished and they weren't. We then found a car speeding through waved yellows that nearly hit a marshall and nothing was done about it. Hmilton kept on track with a broken down car only to cause another SC period and noone did anything to him. All in all one of the worse examples of bad stewarding (IMHO). Finally, if the Moto GP race could be held under the Silverstone downpour, maybe something more could have been done to race with rain in Montreal...
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Re: 2011 Canadian GP Weekend

Postby MikaPup on Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:06 pm

Well the stewards looked into Hamilton continuing to drive after the accident. He thought he had a flat tire and when the team radioed that his suspension was broke, he pulled over immediately and right at one of the recovery areas.

The strange thing was that the safety car was sent out before he stopped. :confused:
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Re: 2011 Canadian GP Weekend

Postby Lyria on Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:11 pm

MikaPup wrote:Well the stewards looked into Hamilton continuing to drive after the accident. He thought he had a flat tire and when the team radioed that his suspension was broke, he pulled over immediately and right at one of the recovery areas.

The strange thing was that the safety car was sent out before he stopped. :confused:

I don't think the safety car came out until after Hamilton stopped.
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Re: 2011 Canadian GP Weekend

Postby Grozza on Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:08 pm

Paolo 2 wrote: I find the 2 hours wait to restart the race ridiculous, when they restarted most of water had gone and they could use intermed tyres!


That's actually a very good point. If the track was dry enough to restart on inters, then surely they could have gone earlier on full wets. Perhaps this has something to do with restarts having to take place 10 minutes after the order being given, so maybe the track dried out a bit more?
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Re: 2011 Canadian GP Weekend

Postby tifosi77 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:42 pm

Paolo 2 wrote:Finally, when his car was untouchable he managed to pass all the field and take the victory. Having said that he passed Schumahcer thanks to the DRS and Vettel drove off the road, so Button's real strenght was not to make mistakes, rather than a great drive.

Six pitstops on the day - some of which were mandated because of penalties (i.e. mistakes) - and from last place with 29 laps to go and 20-odd cars in front of him to taking the lead on the final lap.

You certainly have some lofty - and by lofty I mean 'unrealistic' - standards for greatness.

Paolo 2 wrote:Schumahcer - IMHO he was the best out there last Sunday, I was mighty impressed by his race, I think that he drove very very well, he didn't punt anyone out of the road, fought with passion when he had to do so, was really impressive under braking during the dice with Webber. Overall I'd say that it was an inspired performance by him. Which leads us to a few questions: why doesn't he push like that any other Sunday? Why bother when it seems impossible to gain a single podium with that stinker of a car?

Schumacher was indeed something to behold; he was really hooked up, and it was an impressive display. Why doesn't he drive like that every Sunday? Soak every track with a day's worth of rain prior to the race, then maybe we'll see this form more often.

Paolo 2 wrote:I think that Hamilotn's main problem are his peers: they're not real racers and they can't keep up wioth him.But as soon as he finds a decent racer things turn great: his dice with Schumacher was very nice to watch, and Schumacher is probably the only driver out there who can race with him.

Ah, yes.... it's everyone else's fault.

^o^

Honestly, if I didn't know any better I'd swear it was your own driving that was under question. :hihi:

Paolo 2 wrote:Finally, if the Moto GP race could be held under the Silverstone downpour, maybe something more could have been done to race with rain in Montreal...

Silverstone is a former military airfield. Montreal is effectively a street circuit with trees hanging close to the track. I think the latter carries far more of a safety risk from mist not dissipating than does the former, however I agree that 2 hours was silly.
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Re: 2011 Canadian GP Weekend

Postby Silver Fox on Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:03 pm

Paolo 2 wrote:
....Schumahcer - IMHO he was the best out there last Sunday, I was mighty impressed by his race, I think that he drove very very well, he didn't punt anyone out of the road, fought with passion when he had to do so, was really impressive under braking during the dice with Webber. Overall I'd say that it was an inspired performance by him. Which leads us to a few questions: why doesn't he push like that any other Sunday? Why bother when it seems impossible to gain a single podium with that stinker of a car? personally I'd go back to Switzerland and enjoy my money, I don't quite understand why he still bothers to turn up to F1 races when all he can get with that car is a 4th place...


Hmm... maybe its time for me to put my tin helmet on before launching into this one.... :moose:

In answer to your question I think thee were a number of things that happened last Sunday that resulted in his performance. Firstly the weather / track conditions faced by the drivers placed a premium on driver skill (those such as Massa - who fluked good positions at various times of the race - simply couldn't maintain them). Secondly the track layout mitigated the huge downforce advantage that the RBR's have had on other circuits, thereby somewhat levelling the playing field. Thirdly the race evolution favoured those teams / drivers who can effectively think on their feet during a race rather than being spoon fed with strategy. Finally (FWIW) I think he threw the monkey off his back about comparisons with Kissy Lips and thought 'to hell with it: lets go motor racing'.

Everyone knows that the Merc is a stinker of a car. Having a bad car however has never put Schuey off before 'cos he knows that (with time) it can be fixed. IMHO what would convince Michael to quit is if he thought that he didn't have it any more in him to compete at the highest level. Compared to Turkey (where, in all truth, even his best friends must have been muttering to him about it being time to move on) I think that last Sunday's performance will have fully convinced him that, given a good car, he most certainly can still compete with the best.

On another point I do think that your comments on Button's performance were a little harsh. Anyone who pits 6 times and is plumb last with 30 laps to go yet still wins the race has to have had the drive of their life. Although I've never been a fan of his I do take my hat off to him for what he achieved last Sunday. Just like Senna at Donnington in '93 his performance was the stuff of folklore that many of us here (and elsewhere) will be re-living and analysing 30 years from now... :beer: :beer: :beer:
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Re: 2011 Canadian GP Weekend

Postby Funkmother on Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:52 am

I'd like to nominate Tiff for the Voice of Reason award this year. Seriously, compared to him, I've got nothing. _O_ _O_ _O_

Dev wrote:... if Webber had given him a bit more room ...


Just how much room should Mark have given to Lord Lewis? Perhaps Mark should've pulled off the track and said, "after you, sir". Assuming that Mark is racing with Lewis (I know there may be some question over that), surely given the situation Mark should not be required to give Lewis any more than racing room, and Lewis had plenty of that. It seems abundantly clear that Mark gave Lewis sufficient racing room and Lewis made an error resulting in a collision, something he does far too regularly. :armchair:
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Re: 2011 Canadian GP Weekend

Postby Mafia on Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:20 am

Paolo 2 wrote:so Button's real strenght was not to make mistakes, rather than a great drive


:confused:

wait a minute, I am confused! so you are saying that Not making a mistake during treacherous conditions is not great driving then :eek: ? and before that line, you've spent awe full lot of bandwidth trying to tell us about button punting off hamilton and alonso, which, obviously are mistakes by any driving standard and then followed by the line i have quoted above... Paolo?
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Re: 2011 Canadian GP Weekend

Postby Lyria on Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:42 am

Silver Fox wrote:
Hmm... maybe its time for me to put my tin helmet on before launching into this one.... :moose:

In answer to your question I think thee were a number of things that happened last Sunday that resulted in his performance. Firstly the weather / track conditions faced by the drivers placed a premium on driver skill (those such as Massa - who fluked good positions at various times of the race - simply couldn't maintain them). Secondly the track layout mitigated the huge downforce advantage that the RBR's have had on other circuits, thereby somewhat levelling the playing field. Thirdly the race evolution favoured those teams / drivers who can effectively think on their feet during a race rather than being spoon fed with strategy. Finally (FWIW) I think he threw the monkey off his back about comparisons with Kissy Lips and thought 'to hell with it: lets go motor racing'.

Everyone knows that the Merc is a stinker of a car. Having a bad car however has never put Schuey off before 'cos he knows that (with time) it can be fixed. IMHO what would convince Michael to quit is if he thought that he didn't have it any more in him to compete at the highest level. Compared to Turkey (where, in all truth, even his best friends must have been muttering to him about it being time to move on) I think that last Sunday's performance will have fully convinced him that, given a good car, he most certainly can still compete with the best.

On another point I do think that your comments on Button's performance were a little harsh. Anyone who pits 6 times and is plumb last with 30 laps to go yet still wins the race has to have had the drive of their life. Although I've never been a fan of his I do take my hat off to him for what he achieved last Sunday. Just like Senna at Donnington in '93 his performance was the stuff of folklore that many of us here (and elsewhere) will be re-living and analysing 30 years from now... :beer: :beer: :beer:



I am going to start this post with a declaration, I am not a fan of Michael Schumacher, in fact when he retired I was one of the ones saying good riddance to him. Having said that, I watched his drive on Sunday in the Mercedes and I knew I was seeing something special. He drove an excellent race and I was really rooting for him to get a podium (I Know, I was shocked myself) I was somewhat disappointed when he ended up fourth. For me it proved that he's still got it and in the right car he'd be doing a lot better. Of course he always was good in the wet so it shouldn't be a shock. No, I am not suddenly a Schumacher fan, but I can say he did really well when he did really well.

So yeah, Silver Fox, we agree on Michael Schumacher for once, mark this day in your diary, it might never happen again ;)
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Re: 2011 Canadian GP Weekend

Postby Paolo 2 on Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:55 am

Mafia wrote:
Paolo 2 wrote:so Button's real strenght was not to make mistakes, rather than a great drive


:confused:

wait a minute, I am confused! so you are saying that Not making a mistake during treacherous conditions is not great driving then :eek: ? and before that line, you've spent awe full lot of bandwidth trying to tell us about button punting off hamilton and alonso, which, obviously are mistakes by any driving standard and then followed by the line i have quoted above... Paolo?


making no mistakes (apart from the fact that Button's race wasn't as clean as some pretend it was... :roll: ) is certainly a very good thing and Button, as often is the case, must be praised for that. When he'll be able to match his team mate's speed and will be able to pass his competitors on pure merit (rather than thanks to a superior car or due to other people's mistakes) then I'll say he had a great drive. IMHO Schumacher had a great race, Button won, made few mistakes, had a couple of accidents and in the final stages had a car that was considerably faster than the others. And without the red flag and all the SC periods he would have never climbed from 21th to 1st, and you guys perfectly know that
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Re: 2011 Canadian GP Weekend

Postby Paolo 2 on Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:05 am

tifosi77 wrote:
Paolo 2 wrote:I think that Hamilotn's main problem are his peers: they're not real racers and they can't keep up wioth him.But as soon as he finds a decent racer things turn great: his dice with Schumacher was very nice to watch, and Schumacher is probably the only driver out there who can race with him.

Ah, yes.... it's everyone else's fault.

^o^

Honestly, if I didn't know any better I'd swear it was your own driving that was under question. :hihi:



it's not everyone lelse's fault, it's just that everyone else isn't on his level... :p we always talk about the good old days but I gather that very few here really remember what used to happen... this year we have a certain Michael Schumacher, who has always been average (to be kind) at starting, consistently making several places up at the start of every race, despite the fact that his team mate with the very same car doesn't seem to be starting that well. Said Herr Schumacher has always been good at dicing with other drivers but certainly not unbeatable. Who's the only one who has been able to keep Hamilton at bay this year in close racing? Schumacher. So either Schumahcer got his racecraft much better with ageing (something that I would find exceptionally unsual) or the level of racing has gone down considerably and Hamilton is the only driver of the current crop who could have mingled with the Sennas, Prost, Mansells, Hakkinens etc without being turned into mincemeat.

and in 23 years of road driving I've never been involved in an accident and only once I got a speeding ticket (but that was in Austria and it looked as if it was a tourist trap as I joined a long queue of Germans, French and Dutch drivers lining up to pay a silly fine) :rotflmao:
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Re: 2011 Canadian GP Weekend

Postby Dev on Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:36 am

Paolo 2 wrote:(sorry but I'm very busy at work recently)


You would struggle to find anyone here who considers that a valid and acceptable excuse. :reallyevil:

tifosi77 wrote:You certainly have some lofty - and by lofty I mean 'unrealistic' - standards for greatness.


Quite. I thought Button's win was absolutely epic, and even if Schumi or Alonso did it while dead last, I would have been seriously impressed. :thumbs:

Silver Fox wrote:Anyone who pits 6 times and is plumb last with 30 laps to go yet still wins the race has to have had the drive of their life. Although I've never been a fan of his I do take my hat off to him for what he achieved last Sunday. Just like Senna at Donnington in '93 his performance was the stuff of folklore that many of us here (and elsewhere) will be re-living and analysing 30 years from now... :beer: :beer: :beer:


Sometimes quiet consistency pays off. Besides, it's not as if everyone in front of Button fell off the road and gave up the place to him. I'm sure we missed out a lot of the overtaking moves he performed.

Funkmother wrote:
Dev wrote:... if Webber had given him a bit more room ...


Just how much room should Mark have given to Lord Lewis? Perhaps Mark should've pulled off the track and said, "after you, sir". Assuming that Mark is racing with Lewis (I know there may be some question over that), surely given the situation Mark should not be required to give Lewis any more than racing room, and Lewis had plenty of that. It seems abundantly clear that Mark gave Lewis sufficient racing room and Lewis made an error resulting in a collision, something he does far too regularly. :armchair:


I see your point, but have to agree to disagree here. While Lewis certainly wasn't blameless, he can't put his car into helicopter mode either. They both could have made it through the corner and as I mentioned, Mark could well have come out ahead at the next one (speculation I know).

Lyria wrote:So yeah, Silver Fox, we agree on Michael Schumacher for once, mark this day in your diary, it might never happen again ;) [/color]


I felt so dirty after the race, I had to have a good shower. Thrice. :hihi:

Paolo 2 wrote:And without the red flag and all the SC periods he would have never climbed from 21th to 1st, and you guys perfectly know that


I don't, and neither do you. No one knows that. Because your scenario never happened. 8)
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