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2010 Turkish Grandprix

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Re: 2010 Turkish Grandprix

Postby Paolo 2 on Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:20 pm

Lyria wrote:
Paolo 2 wrote:I agree with Lyria, we agree that we disagree :beer: :beer:
and I think that any self respecting racing driver would have done what Hamilton, Button, Petrov and Alonso did, which in my book remains rather different from what Webber did (who, in any case, took that line after Vettel started his move on him 8) )

Paolo, that's not agreeing to disagree, that's saying you will then getting one last dig in to 'prove' you're right :noway: :p


after all one or the other has to have the last "post" 8) anyway I just thought that highlighting what others have done in similar circumstances was allowed :tophat: next time I'll try to :\
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Re: 2010 Turkish Grandprix

Postby Lawrence on Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:40 pm

From the front page:


Two days later, however, the British magazine 'Autosport' published its report of the race. Its Grand Prix editor, Mark Hughes, wrote: "Going into lap 40 team boss Christian Horner instructed Webber's engineer Ciaron Pilbeam to tell Webber to allow Vettel past. Pilbeam could not bring himself to pass the message on."


Wonder if it is true. Maybe the problem was that Webber didn't realize that he was supposed to let Vettel past, and Vettel just assumed that was the case.

I don't think this is over.
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Re: 2010 Turkish Grandprix

Postby Paolo 2 on Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:07 pm

Lawrence wrote:From the front page:


Two days later, however, the British magazine 'Autosport' published its report of the race. Its Grand Prix editor, Mark Hughes, wrote: "Going into lap 40 team boss Christian Horner instructed Webber's engineer Ciaron Pilbeam to tell Webber to allow Vettel past. Pilbeam could not bring himself to pass the message on."


Wonder if it is true. Maybe the problem was that Webber didn't realize that he was supposed to let Vettel past, and Vettel just assumed that was the case.

I don't think this is over.


maybe they couldn't tell him clearly to move over as it would have been regarded as "team orders" so they told him something very intricate and as he was rather busy at the wheen he didn't get the deep sense of the message, it wouldn't be the first time that something similar happens. However, it is rather obvious why Red Bull wants to play this story down ;) team orders, one way or the other, have been around since motorsport began and I don't think that we will ever get rid of them, and this case could just open a pandora box, one has to wonder if all the issues around who's fault it was is just a smokescreen to divert attention from what could be the real issue at stake here
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Re: 2010 Turkish Grandprix

Postby tifosi77 on Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:42 pm

Paolo 2 wrote:who, in any case, took that line after Vettel started his move on him 8) )

Bollocks, Webber took the line as soon as he exited turn 11.

And Vettel had enough momentum that he could well have overtaken Webber on driver's right and been on the racing for the next corner.

Speaking of which, here's a thought.....

Let's say Webber had been ordered, by whatever means, to allow Vettel past. What if he was ceding the racing line to Vettel? And what if Vettel mis-read the situation and thought Webber was defending, and so dove down the narrow gap on the inside?

Hmmm....
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Re: 2010 Turkish Grandprix

Postby Lawrence on Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:20 pm

Paolo 2 wrote:maybe they couldn't tell him clearly to move over as it would have been regarded as "team orders" so they told him something very intricate and as he was rather busy at the wheen he didn't get the deep sense of the message, it wouldn't be the first time that something similar happens.


Or maybe he choose to ignore them, like Reutemman choose to do so in 1981 when racing against an Australian teammate.
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Re: 2010 Turkish Grandprix

Postby AP on Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:58 pm

Lawrence wrote:From the front page:


Two days later, however, the British magazine 'Autosport' published its report of the race. Its Grand Prix editor, Mark Hughes, wrote: "Going into lap 40 team boss Christian Horner instructed Webber's engineer Ciaron Pilbeam to tell Webber to allow Vettel past. Pilbeam could not bring himself to pass the message on."


Wonder if it is true. Maybe the problem was that Webber didn't realize that he was supposed to let Vettel past, and Vettel just assumed that was the case.

I don't think this is over.

I'm surprised this aspect of the incident has been so concealed. In the German broadcast (RTL) it was pretty much evident during the interviews after the race. It is also IMO the most reasonable explanation of the accident. Vettel wasn't being a jerk, he just assumed he had the green light to pass. Webber didn't let him by because he didn't know he was supposed to.
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Re: 2010 Turkish Grandprix

Postby Lawrence on Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:55 pm

AP wrote:
Lawrence wrote:From the front page:


Two days later, however, the British magazine 'Autosport' published its report of the race. Its Grand Prix editor, Mark Hughes, wrote: "Going into lap 40 team boss Christian Horner instructed Webber's engineer Ciaron Pilbeam to tell Webber to allow Vettel past. Pilbeam could not bring himself to pass the message on."


Wonder if it is true. Maybe the problem was that Webber didn't realize that he was supposed to let Vettel past, and Vettel just assumed that was the case.

I don't think this is over.

I'm surprised this aspect of the incident has been so concealed. In the German broadcast (RTL) it was pretty much evident during the interviews after the race. It is also IMO the most reasonable explanation of the accident. Vettel wasn't being a jerk, he just assumed he had the green light to pass. Webber didn't let him by because he didn't know he was supposed to.


Makes you wonder what Vettel was told a lap or two before.
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Re: 2010 Turkish Grandprix

Postby MikaPup on Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:15 pm

Lawrence wrote:Makes you wonder what Vettel was told a lap or two before.


Can one cuddle over the radio?
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Re: 2010 Turkish Grandprix

Postby Lawrence on Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:38 pm

MikaPup wrote:
Lawrence wrote:Makes you wonder what Vettel was told a lap or two before.


Can one cuddle over the radio?


No, but you can make slobbering kissing sounds.
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Yuck!

Postby Sinister on Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:23 pm

Good lord, what's all this sissy stuff going on in here? Kissing and Cuddling? :puke: :puke: :talkhand: :talkhand:
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Re: 2010 Turkish Grandprix

Postby Dev on Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:38 am

Lawrence wrote:
MikaPup wrote:
Lawrence wrote:Makes you wonder what Vettel was told a lap or two before.


Can one cuddle over the radio?


No, but you can make slobbering kissing sounds.


:hihi: :hihi:

So how we didn't get to hear these interesting radio conversations, which had a huge bearing on the result? Surely they could have played it as a replay. Or was I the only one who missed it? :confused:
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Re: 2010 Turkish Grandprix

Postby grunf77 on Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:52 pm

Let's stir the pot some more... :twisted:


Team - Lewis we need you to save fuel. Both cars doing the same.

Lewis - Jenson is closing in on me you guys.

Team - Understood Lewis

Lewis - If I back off is Jenson going to pass me or not?

Team - No Lewis... No



http://www.formula1.com/video/race_edits.html

Good feature, didn't know was there.
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Re: 2010 Turkish Grandprix

Postby @Lter3d_eg0 on Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:36 pm

Nice find there, Grunf77. That snippet of radio conversation goes some ways towards explaining Hamilton's unusually subdued post-race demeanor. I suspect that foremost among the emotions he was feeling then were confusion, burgeoning mistrust (towards his team & teammate) & silent anger at the possibility of having been misled or deceived.

The only missing snippet of conversation was when the drivers hugged (not cuddled) and "congratulated" each other at parc ferme. Lewis to Jenson: "What the fukc was that all about?? Huh??" Then back at the pit wall is Whitmarsh: "Sh1t! That didn't go to plan!" After these latest gaffes from Red Bull & McLaren, is there anybody still in doubt whether Ferrari is the only team that tries to influence the finishing order of their drivers when it suits the team? :D
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Re: 2010 Turkish Grandprix

Postby MikaPup on Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:58 pm

Bernie's just stirring the pot. Like I said elsewhere, he could have released the RB transcripts to clear the air, or he could have released all of Mac's conversation with Hamilton and Button, but he didn't. And why he didn't is simples - they're boring, and would lessen the effect of letting out just a snippet and getting the fan boys all riled up.

History tells us that if Hamilton is upset, we know about it. He seems fine, and Button seems fine, and McLaren seem fine, while Red Bull seem like a complete disaster. So I strongly suspect there's nothing to see here. I mean, are we seriously supposed to believe that McLaren now favor Button? So fickle, McLaren.
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Re: 2010 Turkish Grandprix

Postby Atonal on Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:56 pm

All this hullabaloo about Vettel and Webber has cost this thread Paolo's detailed post race driver analysis. :|
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