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2016 Pre-season chat

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

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Re: 2016 Pre-season chat

Postby Sakae on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:26 pm

Who said that privateers have all the missing answers? If Williams, FI, McLaren, and RBR are "privateers" (whatever that term means), then they, privateers, are part of the problem, because they have 4 voices out of 6 in the Strategy Group, that's a fact, not conjecture, and their fingerprints are all over the product. If they are so smart, why then those four have not voted on crucial matters against Maranello and Stuttgart?
FiA's F1 arm is dominated by former/current MM/Ecclestone co-workers, and regulatory framework has their fingerprints all over, yet all ills are now thrown upon two teams, Ferrari and Mercedes. Wonderful, but nothing happens in vacuum, and there are plenty of reasons why things are as they are.
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Re: 2016 Pre-season chat

Postby Sakae on Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:43 am

One complicated man - I think of him these days as a Man of The Moment -
Ecclestone is therefore hoping Ferrari will be the ones that dethrone Mercedes.
"I hope so," he said when asked if he hoped Vettel would win the title next season. "Formula 1 is Ferrari. This is a marriage that has been around a long time, which is always renewed and must continue to live on."

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/549210/Ecclestone_backing_Vettel_in_16_to_end_Mercedes_bore/

BE making Mercedes responsible (in a German interview) for loss of interest by viewership in F1 is not very helpful, and doubtfully correct statement to make. Decision process leading towards premature homologation, and players involved, is another matter. I don't think it was Mercedes alone, who has decided on that.
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Re: 2016 Pre-season chat

Postby Lawrence on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:48 pm

Paolo 2 wrote:In a sense I fear that privateers have been driven out of F1, on the one side F1 has become terribly expensive and hugely complex with the current set of engines, on the other hand the regulatory framework prevents me and you setting up a team, finding a few sponsors, buying some Dallara chassis and Mecachrome/cosworth/whatever engine, hire a couple of moneyed south american drivers and go racing, no one can do that, it's banned, sadly. they said that banning new blood from entering F1 was good for the future of the sport, I personally beg to disagree


That sadly is one of things that is missing now from modern Formula One. A young Frank Williams or young Colin Chapman could not succeed in the new environment. It is all big corporations playing with race cars.
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Re: 2016 Pre-season chat

Postby Sakae on Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:31 pm

Just to clarify, Sakae is not against word "Budget"; I have one at home, teams have their own, but I am against deployment of budgetary measures as cost control instrument imposed upon teams with aim to resolve ills of the F1. Such act IMHO is not only ineffective, senseless, misguided, but also expensive due to non-beneficial high cost of maintenance, controversial in boundaries and audit, bearing potentially more adverse effects upon products when minuses outweigh pluses. As this all has been discussed ad nausea in the past (and never refuted), it is not necessary to reiterate it all here again.
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Re: 2016 Pre-season chat

Postby Sakae on Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:44 am

Paolo 2 wrote:Regarding Ferrari being a privateer, yeah right, if they are a privateer then I'm Santa :rotflmao:

Being a "privateer" is rather defined in loose terms by F1 standards, and I am not aware that FiA would bother to set this to any normative level. Veracity of that opinion then depends how one defines "privateer". To best of my knowledge, one of the most frequent definitions states, that privateer-team is self-reliant (on finances???), and not dependable on automotive manufacturer. Hmm, that one is loaded with potential arguments. Today Ferrari has its 10% ownership somewhere in Las Vegas on crap tables, but in the past they weren't reliant on any automotive companies, thus perhaps clarification could be useful where they were failing such designation? Even today their association with Fiat is financially puzzling, as rumor has it, it is actually Ferrari which is supporting mother ship, rather than vice versa.

Problem today IMHO is not if and whether marquee is or isn't this or that, but that Ferrari is no more Ferrari as we knew it in EF (and his disciple LdM') days. Now it's merely another luxury brand owned by Fiat. Exclusivity factor has been neutralized, and how that affects future of this brand remains to be seen. I think unless the ownership comes back into proper family, its longevity is numbered. With SM at the helm, some may see it as blessing, but I think now, as I thought from GETGO, he is a wrong man, missing the aristocratic undertones which were second nature to LdM. I am not going to elaborate further on this very private opinion, but I conclude, LdM was the one for me who has personified Ferrari at its best as a luxury car, and with his departure, it was also end of Maranello era.
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Re: 2016 Pre-season chat

Postby Sakae on Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:05 pm

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/549435/Mercedes_and_Ferrari_threat_to_F1/

Hindsight is a poor excuse for lack of foresight. I am very surprised to hear that Mercedes helped to develop Ferrari's engine. Benson/Ecclestone better have some evidence of that, just in case...
All four of the car manufacturers involved in F1 have competed in at least 25 seasons, with Ferrari doing 66, Renault 37, Mercedes and Honda 25. They are four of the five most loyal in the sport's history.


Benson/Ecclestone call this record "come and go"..?
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Re: 2016 Pre-season chat

Postby Sakae on Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:41 pm

crash:
With just Ferrari the only member of the WMSC to oppose the move, Ecclestone told the BBC it has written a lawyer's letter arguing the mandate contravenes contracts. However, Ecclestone remains unconcerned if the matter is taken further.
"The only thing we could do is to ignore what Ferrari have said and carry on with it and say: 'You've got a choice - you can leave or go to arbitration and see what the arbitrators think. I think if we went to arbitration, we'd win easy,"
Screw the Ferrari and any contracts on the books? Will Ferrari tolerate this situation? Honda reportedly wanted EUR 30MM for their engine, and I am not so sure that Renault can sell it cheaply either. It is not therefore everybody against two teams, but all four automobile companies are placed into very strange situation with Ecclestone's attitude. Sauber apparently is also not in favor of Ecclestone's plan.
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Re: 2016 Pre-season chat

Postby Paolo 2 on Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:58 pm

Sakae wrote:crash:
With just Ferrari the only member of the WMSC to oppose the move, Ecclestone told the BBC it has written a lawyer's letter arguing the mandate contravenes contracts. However, Ecclestone remains unconcerned if the matter is taken further.
"The only thing we could do is to ignore what Ferrari have said and carry on with it and say: 'You've got a choice - you can leave or go to arbitration and see what the arbitrators think. I think if we went to arbitration, we'd win easy,"
Screw the Ferrari and any contracts on the books? Will Ferrari tolerate this situation? Honda reportedly wanted EUR 30MM for their engine, and I am not so sure that Renault can sell it cheaply either. It is not therefore everybody against two teams, but all four automobile companies are placed into very strange situation with Ecclestone's attitude. Sauber apparently is also not in favor of Ecclestone's plan.


I'm not aware of many walks of life when a company can be forced to sell its products at a loss, but F1 has always been intriguing. I'd love to know what those contracts say though, as a general rule I believe that Bernie has an habit of always saying the exct opposite of what is true so it's reasonable to assume that if Ferrari takes to arbitration F1 over a forced sale at a loss of its engines to another team that they do not want to supply they might stand a good chance of winning :hihi:
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Re: 2016 Pre-season chat

Postby Sakae on Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:49 am

Yeah, in midst of vilification of Ferrari (and Mercedes), current flavor of the day, it would be useful to repeat, that in reality to-date Maranello actually has not voted against introduction of different engines, but merely against attempts by Federation to impose upon manufacturers selling their engines at prices vastly below production cost. (If there is "new" mandate for Ecclestone and Todt, then only within laws of existing constitution).
Mercedes might have a point gazing into history, and how this plan with other engines was (not)working elsewhere in other series. Having said that, I do continue to suspect, that normative references on FiA's books are wrong and most likely at the core of the problem. It could be interesting reading what is in the contract vis a vis engines, which Ghoson committed Renault for next 9 years just when this war is going on.
Last edited by Sakae on Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2016 Pre-season chat

Postby Sakae on Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:09 am

Big fail - just to show how artificial barriers cannot effectively control development paths, and how media can lack foresight as a next person.

BBC Benson wrote in summer of 2011:
A series of checks and balances have been written into the regulations to keep costs down and to ensure it should be impossible for one manufacturer to steal a march on the others in terms of performance.

Yeah right; wisdom unlimited. Then Mercedes happened, so where are those checks and balances keeping them from marching, and at reasonable cost?
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/13878359
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Re: 2016 Pre-season chat

Postby Sakae on Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:10 am

GP247:
According to F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone, a change in the future ownership of Formula 1 might not be as imminent as some in the paddock might have expected.

There has been takeover talk for months and he was quoted recently by German daily Handelsblatt as saying controlling shareholders CVC Capital partners were likely to decide by March.

However he told Sky that CVC, whose co-chairman Donald Mackenzie has been a regular presence at races, would take some persuading, “The bottom line is simple: in the end, the major shareholder really doesn’t want to sell. That’s really the truth of things.”

“People keep tempting him. And one day maybe…at the moment, there’s people that may be doing a little more than in the past. But I think it will be difficult to get him to say yes.”


Pretty confusing, if you ask me. One day I read Mr. Ecclestone claiming, that CVC (by commercial law) must sell F1, soon, this year, like it or not, next day its "maybe not"...

Is anyone still surprised that F1 has problems?
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Re: 2016 Pre-season chat

Postby Sakae on Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:04 pm

Internet sources: FiA reserved right to allow in 2016 for six in-season, two days each, tire related testing aimed at product development. I have not seen any specific timing for those tests, or what car-configuration teams will be permitted to test simultaneously.
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Re: 2016 Pre-season chat

Postby Sakae on Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:13 pm

The guy must be reading this forum...
Fernando Alonso believes Formula 1 bosses concern themselves too much with helping the independent teams when the championship should be about survival of the fittest.
Formula 1 has introduced a host of measures aimed at cutting costs, including slashing on-track testing, reducing the amount of windtunnel time and a cap on staffing numbers.
Now teams are confined to two pre-season tests and two days where 100km is permitted for promotional purposes with a greater emphasis put on CFD.
When asked what he would like from the major regulation change planned for 2017 if he could design the rules, Alonso said: "Bigger engines, more power, more aero, more freedom for the teams to develop and more testing.
"I guess it is something like F1 was 10 years ago maybe.
"I know sometimes it was more expensive, which I doubt because now the technology of simulators and other technology increases the cost.
"If some teams cannot afford to test, it's their problem, it's the nature of the sport.
"Real Madrid can buy some players and other teams cannot. They cannot say sorry for that.
"In F1 there is always the need to protect the small teams and sometimes if they cannot test, they cannot test."
For 2017, the plan is to increase the speed of F1 machinery by five-to-six seconds per lap and for cars to look more aggressive with bigger rear tyres and wider front and rear wings.
While Alonso is in favour of faster cars, he's unsure whether the planned changes will have a positive impact on F1.

I cannot click with this person for some reason on personal level, but his perception of the F1 weaknesses is aligned with mine about 99,99%. It's scary.
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Re: 2016 Pre-season chat

Postby Sakae on Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:29 am

Dear Santa,
My Christmas, very modest, wish - No more next year of testing disguised as "racing".
Thank you Santa

BTW, should you be in good mood, and I can slide in one more, please allow Mr. Ecclestone much needed private time as faraway as possible from all racing paperwork, disconnect his phone so he wan't be bothered, etc. He has worked hard all his life, and must be tired now. Afford him enough brandy or something similarly delicious, and let him reminisce (forever) with Mr. MM about good times they had together.
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Re: 2016 Pre-season chat

Postby Sakae on Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:07 am

Just next 5 days, and break is over for most. Rumor has it, that Honda continues work on their engine without any downtime. When they will re-charge their personal batteries remains however secret.
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