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2015 Russian Grand Prix

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

Moderators: Lyria, Mafia, Lawrence, Administrator

Re: 2015 Russian Grand Prix

Postby Lyria on Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:19 pm

Yes Kimi's penalty drops him to 8th place and Alonso also got a penalty for exceeding the track limits, that drops him to 11th and out of the points.

Some nasty crashes in Russia, poor Sainz had another crash, Hulkenberg and Ericsson had that coming together at the start, Grosjean had that massive smash and Kimi made that ham fisted move on poor Bottas.

I am sure Perez was as thrilled with his podium as Rosberg was gutted after his car broke again. Vettel did well to be 2nd but Mercedes are obviously cruising. Kimi's penalty has allowed Mercedes to be constructor champions for 2015. Well aren't we all shocked about that?

Oh and Pirelli has done a deal with Bernie for more of this next year :yaynot:
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Re: 2015 Russian Grand Prix

Postby Sakae on Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:32 pm

Lyria wrote:...Kimi made that ham fisted move on poor Bottas...


I think Kimi was in no win position, because had he backed off, majority of fans would be all over him and damn him for being "old" and lacking guts to try as RB drivers do, and when it hasn't pan out, instead a "racing accident", what we have now is penalty imposed by FiA for daring Williams.

Scuderia site
Kimi said he “took a chance” with Bottas

Kimi Raikkonen: “All through the race the car was behaving well, especially after the pit stop, but then I was stuck behind other cars and had no speed on the straight, so it was hard to get past. In the final stages, I tried to overtake Valtteri in the same place I had passed him earlier in the race, I had a good run in turn 3 and in the next one there would have been enough space, so I decided to go for it. I don’t know if he was not expecting me at all or if he did not see me, but once I decided to go there was no way I could back off. I tried to turn inside as much as I could, but there was no way to go and in the end we collided. It is an unfortunate thing for us and for them, nobody want to have an accident even if it’s part of racing. It’s really a shame, but my move was based on a good chance and not something completely crazy.”

Kimi Raikkonen
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Re: 2015 Russian Grand Prix

Postby Paolo 2 on Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:13 pm

that track is awful, with the exception of turn 3, and the racing wasn't great either, apart from the closing stages. There were a few outstanding drives, though, Perez and Sainz are the first names that come to my mind. IMHO this was another race when it was apparent that there are at least 3 racing seats at top teams that are totally wasted, and I'm referring to both Williams and to Kimi's Ferrari: we all deserve something better than those drivers, the Williams could and should have been a match for Hamilton today, and they should have been miles ahead of the Ferraris. Anyway

Rosberg - I feel for him, today he had done all he had to do to win the race, he took pole, he managed to properly race his team mate at the start and at the SC restart, it's a pity that such a dramatic issue prevented him from winning the race. I'm amazed that he managed to drive for so long with such a catastrophic issue. I personally think that his team or the stewards should have stopped him as soon as he told them that he had a problem with his throttle pedal

Hamilton - He had been outclassed this week end by Rosberg but after Rosberg was forced to retire Hamilton drove an intelligent race

Vettel - great drive by him, only he could have managed to end the race ahead of the Williams, it always looks as if he take 100% out of the car, every single lap

Perez - _O_ _O_ _O_ outstanding performance from him, he drove a sterling race, in the end he could do nothing more against Bottas as the Williams was significantly faster that his car and Bottas had fresher tyres. He also showed to Bottas what to do when you are being overtaken

Bottas - I'm sure that the main responsibility for what happened was Kimi's but Bottas shouldn't have been in that position, he left the door totally open, once Kimi had tried his move there was no going back, it looks to me as if Bottas wasn't expecting Kimi's move and he was caught off guard. Other than that third class performance by him: Kimi humiliated him at the start, Bottas then lost position and track time to Vettel despite a vastly superior car. In the end he managed to pass Ricciardo only because his car was so much faster down the straight (and IMHO Ricciardo's car was already looking a bit messy). The he caught Perez... again he managed to pass him only because Perez's tyres were totally shot, AND Perez was wide awake and saw him coming and left him room on the inside. I personally think that Bottas doesn't deserve a drive for a top team, IMHO he should be somewhere like Force India or Lotus, he's not a great driver by F1 standards

Raikkonen - a very erratic performance from him: he had a sterling start and a great move on Bottas, then he faded away. Towards the end, after losing half a second to Bottas when lapping a Marussia, he found some sparkle and IMHO did what he had to do: he made a move on Bottas. Pity in that corner once you commit there is no going back. He had to take a risk and too it, it didn't work out and he paid the price. It looked to me as if he was running a softer front end than his team mate, and I'm not so sure that it was a wise move

Massa - another race à la Massa: sometimes he looked totally lost, sometimes he looked fast, then he couldn't overtake, on occasion he was in fighting form. At least he managed to bring his car home in the points, the point with Massa he that he's too inconsistent, I'm sure that he's got the speed and the talent that his team mate hasn't got but he obviously can't focus and is too erratic in his performances

Kvyat - a reasonable race for him, but nothing to write home about

Sainz - _O_ _O_ _O_ if it wasn't for what looked like a brake failure he would have been 5th, after that shunt and after starting from the very last spot, with very few laps under his belt because he had to miss Q4: that's quite impressive :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: 2015 Russian Grand Prix

Postby Sakae on Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:23 pm

I forgot about Sainz, and I add my voice of admiration for this driver. His technical team has performed a superb job to get him racing from that pile of trash we saw after his rub with a wall. Mr. Ghoson - here is a team for you - TR!
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Re: 2015 Russian Grand Prix

Postby Lawrence on Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:24 am

Well, I always record the races before I watch them, so I can fast forward through the boring parts. Anyhow, not the best race.

Not much to add to what Paolo said, except I think he does actually underrate Massa and Bottas a little bit. Although I don't think that Bottas is the next great driver, at this stage, he is better than Kimi. He was ahead of him on track in an inferior car. What actually got to me about Kimi was that towards the end of the race, when he had a positions to gain, he clearly got faster. You can't speed up if you were giving it your all to start with. It has been my observation (and not only mine) that he seems to be sleep walking through a lot of the races, and has been for years. Needless to say, his pass attempt on Bottas was a little optimistic. If he was a kid, I would not fault him.

Pérez again demonstrates that he is the real deal, and should probably be in a top team before a lot of other "flavor of the month" drivers are picked for that slot. DR again outperforms Kvyat. Hard to say how good DR is, but he does seem to get the leg up on all his teammates. That is not an easy thing to do.
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Re: 2015 Russian Grand Prix

Postby Paolo 2 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:01 am

Lawrence wrote:Not much to add to what Paolo said, except I think he does actually underrate Massa and Bottas a little bit. Although I don't think that Bottas is the next great driver, at this stage, he is better than Kimi. He was ahead of him on track in an inferior car. What actually got to me about Kimi was that towards the end of the race, when he had a positions to gain, he clearly got faster. You can't speed up if you were giving it your all to start with. It has been my observation (and not only mine) that he seems to be sleep walking through a lot of the races, and has been for years. Needless to say, his pass attempt on Bottas was a little optimistic. If he was a kid, I would not fault him.



I think that a driver with Massa's speed and Bottas brain would be great, IMHO now we're stuck with a situation where one can be fast (when he's in a good day) but is totally inconsistent and the other who is very consistent and a solid performer but who hasn't got much speed.

Yesterday IMHO the Williams was a significantly better car that the Ferraris.

I agree with what you say about Kimi, in a sense what bothers me about him is that we all know that he could deliver so much more, yesterday he was brilliant when it mattered (to him), but then he felt asleep, as he always does. In a sense I criticise Bottas because he can't even get close to the things that someone like Kimi can do, when they were fighting for position (with the exception of the last lap 8) ) Kimi showed that he can run circles around Bottas if only he wants it. Kimi seems to have lost his sparkle many years ago
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Re: 2015 Russian Grand Prix

Postby Sakae on Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:02 pm

Image
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Re: 2015 Russian Grand Prix

Postby Lawrence on Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:23 pm

The more I look at it, the less certain I am of it.
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Re: 2015 Russian Grand Prix

Postby Lawrence on Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:39 pm

Paolo 2 wrote:Kimi seems to have lost his sparkle many years ago


Well, when he and Montoya were at McLaren, they got the reputation as the two laziest drivers on the grid. Even in the year Kimi won the championship, he seemed to cruise around for half the races. I thought we saw a new Kimi at Lotus, where he was clearly driving the best he had for years, but the moment he got back to Ferrari, he turned into the same underperformer that he has been for most of his career. It is weird. Who else has 20 wins yet 42 fastest laps? Just perusing the list of the 128 drivers with fastest laps, the drivers with twice as many fastest laps as wins includes people like Gerhard Berger (12th on list, 10 wins, 21 FL), Mark Webber (9 and 19), Riccardo Patrese (6 and 13), Gonzalez (2 and 6), Hawthorn (3 and 6), Frentzen (3 and 6), and I quit looking below 6 FL (although there are a number of cases down there). Senna with his 41 wins only had 19 fastest laps.

I do think they should give an extra point or 3 for the fastest lap of the race.
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Re: 2015 Russian Grand Prix

Postby Sakae on Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:48 pm

"Dear Valtteri!
Objects in your rear view mirrors are really much closer than you think".
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Re: 2015 Russian Grand Prix

Postby Lawrence on Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:43 am

I think the 30 second penalty against Kimi was a fair assessment. It was an optimistic move.
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Re: 2015 Russian Grand Prix

Postby Paolo 2 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:04 am

Lawrence wrote:I think the 30 second penalty against Kimi was a fair assessment. It was an optimistic move.


I agree that it was an optimistic move but IMHO 30 seconds is ludicrous, we see much worse than that and I don't remember the stewards imposing such tough sanctions

I also believe that while turning in Bottas saw Kimi coming, I agree that the responsibility for avoiding an accident rests primarily with the guy behind and on that basis I think that a punishment for Kimi is fair (although not 30 seconds), but Bottas could have done something to avoid this (and he probably shouldn't have left the door open in the first place)
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Re: 2015 Russian Grand Prix

Postby Lyria on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:12 pm

See the more I watch that bit of film over and over (thanks Sakae 8) ) the more I think Kimi couldn't avoid it. By the time he saw Bottas turning in he was already braking and sliding. Bottas must have seen Kimi there and he chose to cut him off rather than give him just enough space. In that regard I'd have to call it a 50/50 thing and call it a racing incident. For me, both of them had a chance to avoid the coming together and neither did which to me suggests they should share the blame.

Okay, I know it's not quite that simple, Kimi shouldn't have tried to make such an aggressive move in the first place so the onus is more on him, but then if he hadn't tried at all we'd all accuse him of wimping out and not trying, so the poor guy can't win, can he?
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Re: 2015 Russian Grand Prix

Postby Willie Caja on Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:13 pm

For me, one of the best parts of the race was:

Team - "Okay Fernando, we are racing Massa behind to the end."
Alonso - "I love your sense of humour!"

:rotflmao:
"Okay Fernando, we are racing Massa behind to the end."
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Re: 2015 Russian Grand Prix

Postby Lawrence on Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:21 pm

Yea, I am not sure how much can they track in a rear view mirror, just presence, or can they determine velocity or direction while they are trying to make the turn? We are looking repeatedly at the complete view, while they are looking in a few square inches of mirror while trying to race a car.

I do think Kimi's move caught Bottas by surprise.
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