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2015 Hungarian GP

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

Moderators: Lyria, Mafia, Lawrence, Administrator

Re: 2015 Hungarian GP

Postby Paolo 2 on Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:53 pm

I forgot to say that I was surprised by how badly Alonso's suspensions worked, he had the inside front bumping all the time when off load, I know that McLaren has a history of running a very stiff front end but yesterday it looked as if they simply didn't do their homework so the problem for them is probably not only Honda.
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Re: 2015 Hungarian GP

Postby Lawrence on Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:55 pm

Sakae wrote:Yes, I notice he talks big. Could, would, should is a path full of good intentions and promises. Fact however remains, in Hungary 2015 he has been defeated fair and square, despite all his whining on the radio, pleading for team orders.


Well, it appeared to be a realistic assessment of his position. He did set the fastest lap of the race and was closing on both Rosberg and Vettel. If he had gotten by Rosberg he would have certainly had a good chance to go after Vettel. Whether Vettel has any reserve in his car or was already driving at his limit I do not know.

The team orders also made perfect sense. At the time, Kvyat's car was all over the place and DR was clearly faster. You could see it. As it was, by letting DR by, he later got second, whereas if DR was not in position to challenge Rosberg, he probably would have only gotten 4th.

BTW, is it time to start counting his "racing related" collisions?...


Be my guest, but please do it in comparison to other drivers. As it was, his rather bold passes were about the only option he had given that he had a Renault engine and the cars he was passing had Mercedes. It was not like he was going to pass him on the straightaway.

Anyhow, I do think Ricciardo was the drive of the race. It was pithy, exciting, and fast.

Interesting to see Newey back in the pits.
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Re: 2015 Hungarian GP

Postby Sakae on Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:28 pm

Sakae wrote:We should take a notice of post-race conference, in which all three drivers complimented, and thanking to Dr. Marko. Ricciardo said, "he is like a farther to me", whilst Seb admitted, they still stay in touch with each other after switching teams. This is in contrast to, now perhaps getting more and more isolated, comments we got from Webber about the man, which media were so keen to headline.


Looks like Dr. Marko was joining with Ferrari's crowd, well wishing to a one happy camper, as seen in this image.
http://i.imgur.com/fbIXQkV.jpg
Nice gesture from a competitor.
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Re: 2015 Hungarian GP

Postby Mach on Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:24 am

Yes it was :beer:
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Re: 2015 Hungarian GP

Postby Sakae on Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:04 am

Denied, but interesting. Admission of such act of course is unthinkable, as that would open the proverbial can of warms, and fill void for next 25 days, very much busting the internet in the process.
Bernie Ecclestone and Ferrari have denied wild claims the television broadcast of Sunday’s Hungarian grand prix amounted to a boycott of the Italian team.

The accusation was made by Gianfranco Mazzoni, a commentator for Italian television RAI, who suggested that the Ecclestone-controlled Formula One Management had arranged that images of Sebastian Vettel and Kimi Raikkonen’s cars be kept to a minimum during the race.


http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/07/27/ecclestone-denies-tv-boycott-of-ferrari-in-hungary/
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Re: 2015 Hungarian GP

Postby Lawrence on Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:32 pm

The Fastest Laps at Hungary are interesting:

DR.........1:24.821....lap 68
Rosberg...1:25.149...lap 68
Hamilton..1:25.727...lap 68
Kvyat.......1:26.519..lap 57
Vettel......1:26.772.lap 63
Massa......1:26.864...lap 59
Raikkonen..1:26.954..lap 24
Bottas.......1:27.058...lap 51

The full listing is here: http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/race_fastest_lap_1.pdf

A few comments:
1. The three fastest laps were set on lap 68, after all the accidents and one lap before the end of the race.
2. DR's fastest lap was almost two seconds faster than Vettels !!! I think he would have caught him if he did not collide with Rosberg.
3. DR's fastest lap was 1.7 seconds faster than his teammate.
4. Rosberg's fastest lap was faster than Hamilton by almost 0.6 seconds, yet all during the race Hamilton was reeling him in between his spins, accidents and penalties.
5. Rosberg's fastest lap was 1.6 seconds faster than Vettels, yet he was not able to catch him, and in fact seemed to be cruising serenely behind both Ferraris.
6. Clearly the Mercedes and Red Bulls were quicker than the Ferrari's this day. You could certainly see that with DR and Hamilton's driving, but could not see that with Rosberg.

Weird race.
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Re: 2015 Hungarian GP

Postby Sakae on Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:28 pm

Conclusion based on data shown is weak, and most likely patently erroneous. Each driver had his own unique set of circumstances.

Catching Vettel is one thing, overtaking, especially on that track, is totally another. Kamikaze style of recent dives by DR have not impressed me at all, as they lacking finesse seen on part of more mature drivers. Mansell, Montoya, and maybe little bit also Kamui were known to do such stuff from time to time. To create situation when both cars either crush, or frontrunner must go through evasive maneuver is not something we should see, and DR should have been penalized, and not awarded with applause for some sort of special driving excellence. Vettel, having clean air, is one of the fastest drivers around, and he can push the pedal as deep as he needs to, if he needs to, otherwise he maintains the gap and keeps followers at bay. His tires were still OK, and RB did not have sufficient speed to take him on cleanly. DR and his fans can talk big, but it's all dreaming against Vettel this time around.

Having said that, admittedly Ferrari was third best car to drive in the last race. Vettel won because he maximized his opportunities, whilst others have not. Kimi the same, until DNF point.


http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12472/9925552/nico-rosberg-and-toto-wolff-blame-daniel-ricciardo-for-clash
Had this been Vettel in place of DR, I wonder if Whiting as as benevolent as he wa in this case.
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Re: 2015 Hungarian GP

Postby Lawrence on Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:28 pm

Sakae wrote:Conclusion based on data shown is weak, and most likely patently erroneous. Each driver had his own unique set of circumstances.


Well, it looked like was faster at the time (as he was closing on him), but I haven't bothered to look up that data.

Catching Vettel is one thing, overtaking, especially on that track, is totally another.


Yep, that would have been the challenge, considering that the Ferrari was faster on the straights. Same problem he had trying to pass Rosberg.

Kamikaze style of recent dives by DR have not impressed me at all, as they lacking finesse seen on part of more mature drivers.


Pretty much the only option he has if he is going to pass a car that is faster on the straights. How else does it pass. Has nothing to do with maturity, has a lot to do with being a racer.

Mansell, Montoya, and maybe little bit also Kamui were known to do such stuff from time to time.


All drivers I like and all racers. We do live in two different worlds.
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Re: 2015 Hungarian GP

Postby Paolo 2 on Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:38 pm

Lawrence wrote:Well, it looked like was faster at the time (as he was closing on him), but I haven't bothered to look up that data.



I don't think that Ricciardo was catching Vettel, if I remember correctly Vettel had for most of the time after the SC an advantage of 1.1 seconds to Rosberg, who in turn kept Ricciardo at around 7 tenths of a second. With the due exception of poor Kimi, they kept the positions and more or less the gaps that they had at the SC restart until Ricciardo and Rosberg crashed. It didn't look to me as if Ricciardo had any chance of properly catching Rosberg as Rosberg's car was faster despite the DRS effect. In fairness I was expecting Rosberg to catch Vettel (and in turn giving Ricciardo a tow) but that didn't happen either. What IMHO was remarkable was that Vettel managed to keep his cool and manage to be just over 1 second ahead of Rosberg each time they reached the DRS detection point
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Re: 2015 Hungarian GP

Postby Sakae on Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:32 pm

Lawrence wrote:
Sakae wrote:
Catching Vettel is one thing, overtaking, especially on that track, is totally another.


Yep, that would have been the challenge, considering that the Ferrari was faster on the straights. Same problem he had trying to pass Rosberg.


Hungaroring has only one short straight, and it is being considered next to Monaco as one off, if not the most difficult race tracks on the current F1 calendar to overtake cleanly (antonym of bulldozing people out of the way). Marginal equipment superiority is not enough. Mercedes on good tires in the tow of Ferrari would have been probably the only car which could have challenged Vettel, however with uncertain results. Hamilton in Monaco could do nothing much to him, and I doubt Rosberg would risk a collision.
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Re: 2015 Hungarian GP

Postby Lawrence on Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:24 am

Paolo:

By default, if DR was catching Rosberg, then he was closing the gap to Vettel. But yes, I also expected Rosberg to close on Vettel and attempt to pass him, he got within a second lap for like one lap and the next lap was back to 1.1 seconds. Don't know how the Mercedes could not close. That is the real mystery, why did he follow around patiently behind Vettel and Raikkonen in the first part of the race and then after the safety car, never really challenged Vettel. That is the really questionable part of this race.

It also looks to me that Hamilton was going to catch Rosberg up until he ran into DR. Could he have won the race if he had not had that accident?

But the other mystery to me is why Raikkonen never looked like he was going to challenge Vettel. Is he a racer or a #2?
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Re: 2015 Hungarian GP

Postby Lawrence on Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:26 am

Paolo 2 wrote:What IMHO was remarkable was that Vettel managed to keep his cool and manage to be just over 1 second ahead of Rosberg each time they reached the DRS detection point


He may have been managing the gap (meaning he had more speed he was not showing) but considering that his fastest lap time was 1-2 seconds slower than DR, Rosberg and Hamilton, I am not so sure he had a lot to spare.
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Re: 2015 Hungarian GP

Postby Lawrence on Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:33 am

Sakae wrote:...and I doubt Rosberg would risk a collision.


Well, he risked a collision to hang onto 2nd when he had the championship lead secured. That really wasn't a good decision. I would be a lot more forgiving of him for taking a risk for first.

In the end, Hamilton and DR were doing a lot passing. Rosberg and Raikkonen chose not to challenge anyone.
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Re: 2015 Hungarian GP

Postby Sakae on Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:08 am

Hamilton has a car which a blind man could drive through 80% of the field without flinch, thus I will hold on Champagne celebrating his heroism, but I do agree about DR. He has moved, while has engaged in some construction work cleaning his road ahead with skills (I would say clumsiness) pleasing some fans, but it's not my style of entertainment.
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Re: 2015 Hungarian GP

Postby Sakae on Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:22 am

Lawrence wrote:But the other mystery to me is why Raikkonen never looked like he was going to challenge Vettel. Is he a racer or a #2?

Without pointless and hard to justify speculations who is or isn't No. 2, why not simply think of it, that Vettel in race condition was a faster driver, and the equipment he had, was simply good enough to support him on that one afternoon?

It is mystery to me why some fans in this sport always have to think that as soon as Vettel is in the front, than either Vettel has a far superior equipment, or others are simply underperforming, although in Mercedes case that might had been very well true in the last race.
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