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2015 British GP

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

Moderators: Lyria, Mafia, Lawrence, Administrator

Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Lyria on Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:54 pm

An event filled race. Some great calls by the teams, some not so good. Ferrari made the wrong call to go onto inters for Kimi but got it spot on for Vettel, that rain and the pit call made the race for Vettel, it changed everything for him.

Williams had it all at one time and then they lost it big time, they still got good points but they looked so in control early on. I agree it was a mistake to keep Bottas behind Massa but in the end I don't think it would have mattered.

Felt bad for Button to go out first lap like that, good for Alonso though, he scored a point for McLaren at last. Vertsappen, well it wasn't his weekend was it? Neither Lotus made it beyond lap 1 and poor Nasr never even started.

Oh and the rain, we spiced things up at the end with that as a special treat ;) Have to say I was somewhat distracted by some low flying aricraft around here, we must be on the flight path for an airshow or something as we've had lots this afternoon, including a low flying Vulcan on it's farewell trip around the airshow circuit before it's grounded for the last time.

Frankie Dettori doing the podium interviews? Seriously? I like Frankie, I do, but I don't see why he was invited to do that.


Edit: According to Arrivabene, the drivers make the final call on the tyre stops when it's raining, so it was Kimi who called it wrong and Vettel who called it right, not the team.
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Sakae on Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:43 pm

Lyria wrote:Edit: According to Arrivabene, the drivers make the final call on the tyre stops when it's raining, so it was Kimi who called it wrong and Vettel who called it right, not the team.
Maybe so, and this is why Kimi might be in deep dodo right now, but Ferrari's upgrades... Are they working? Seb had whole weekend problems, and the Start was just a blow.
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Sakae on Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:51 pm

SV
“I had a really bad start, I nearly didn’t get off the line and lost positions. At the restart I made up a position, but I lost two as a consequence. It didn’t seem to come together at this point, a bit like the whole weekend for us, but then we were able to turn it around.
We recovered through strategy, mostly by being very aggressive. I was in touch with the team all the time, it was not easy to take the right decision with the weather. But we did a great call to pit just in the perfect lap, made up a lot of ground and finished on the podium. I’m sorry for the people that got wet, but the rain helped us today!

It was in the end a podium finish that we deserved, as we made the right call at the right time. Williams did a small step forward, for us I think we just didn’t find the rhythm at this weekend. There is plenty of things we have to learn and understand quickly. We are not in favour of these hard tyres, but it is the same for everyone, so no excuses allowed. If you look at the gap to the first two cars, it was bigger than normal, so it is up to us to come back for Hungary.”
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Sakae on Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:06 pm

Horner now thinks that podium belonged to the Russian, instead Vettel, who spun, and lost about 40 sec to Vettel in process. I am not in awe of RBR or their reputation as “one of the foremost racing teams”. In fact, I’ve often found crippling misstatements about various situations, and this one seems just one of those in that line.
If this, or that, but what's the point? If Vettel had a better weekend, he wouldn't started sixth, if his car actually pulled off the grid stall, Vettel... etc. Interestingly enough, Horner couldn't insert DR's name into his litany, and I wonder why? The other day we were exposed to the same attitude from Dr. Marko. Everything and everyone but DR. Is that guy still working there? Hmm, what does that mean? DR thought he is a second Senna, and now it came down on him, that he isn't?

I think if there is a one guy who is genuinely angry today, it must be Bottas, who received team orders to stay behind Massa (next time when someone will come up with claims, that Williams never uses team orders. Just ask Frenzen, ask also Hill, now Bottas, and surely there will be others).


PS - I watched today's race, for a change, with Alex Wurz on an Austrian network, and commentary was really refreshing.
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Mach on Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:51 pm

I consider Lewis Hamilton the best British race car driver ever :clap:
:clint:
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Lawrence on Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:00 am

Mach wrote:I consider Lewis Hamilton the best British race car driver ever :clap:


Stirling Moss?
Jim Clark?
Jackie Stewart?
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Paolo 2 on Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:21 am

IanK wrote:Williams blew it by not making Massa let Bottas by about ten laps before either of them stopped.


they had been allowed to race, Bottas tried to pass but didn't have the speed to. And in the end he was 26 seconds off Massa's pace... Bottas only managed to take advantage of Massa's slipstream, as soon as he was out of the DRS zone he started slowly going backwards, well before the track got wet and things went horribly wrong for him. I can't quite understand why we are always making excuses for Bottas, he was slower than his team mate throughout the week end, he had been allowed to race him and despite the huge advantage of the DRS he wasn't able to pass him, and in the end he was one of the slowest cars out there in the wet (sorting the men from the boys anyone?). What we saw yesterday with the Williams is the usual slipstream effect happening all the time in place like Silverstone or Monza, the car behind has a huge advantage but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's faster than the one in front.

Besides, what would have been the reaction had Massa been chasing Bottas? ;)
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Mach on Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:05 am

Lawrence wrote:
Mach wrote:I consider Lewis Hamilton the best British race car driver ever :clap:


Stirling Moss?
Jim Clark?
Jackie Stewart?

Yes, better then those three gentlemen who arguable did extremely well in their respective careers according to history books.
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Paolo 2 on Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:22 am

I really enjoed the race, to me it proves that a proper track plus some changing weather always give us interesting races. And the race IMHO was interesting because bthe very difficult conditions highlighted the drivers' characters and their respective abilities (and weaknesses). First of all I must say that I think that Williams had a chance at winning the race yesterday, pity their drivers haven't got what it takes to take advantage of those situations. the Mercedes drivers, in fact, had both a rather average race, especially when you consider the standard that they normally keep.

Hamilton - one of his least convincing races of the season, IMHO he was supremely lucky because, let's be honest, he didn't change to inters because he felt that rain was coming but rather because for some reason he had lost temperature on his slicks and couldn't keep his car on the road. Which is something extremely surprising since IMHO in pure driving terms he is probably one of the greatest drivers the sport has ever seen and if memory doesn't fail me he' always been quite handy in the wet. He did well around the pit stop but other than that IMHO he did nothing special yesterday

Rosberg - the first part of the race proved why it will be very hard for him to become WDC, he settled for 4th without a fight, when he came up alongside Bottas, despite the fact that his car advantage - thanks to higher downforce - he couldn't finish the job. He was good with the damp track but in the end that wasn't enough

Vettel - if it wasn't for the rain it would have been a so-so race for him, his strenght, apart from probably being the quickest driver out there in the wet, is his consistency

Massa - it looks as if he's rebuilding his confidence after that accident and a few season as Alonso's team mate, he's got the speed and he's got plenty of experience, plus he's clearly the kind of driver that prefers to be in front during a dice and he had Bottas covered, the problem for him is that he wasted a podium finish in his in and out laps, he's always been very weak in these instances and he's not going to improve now that as a driver he's getting towards old age (only as a F1 driver mind you, in every other respect he's moving towards his prime years!).

Bottas - rather than crying because the pit wall didn't order Massa to move aside he should concentrate on his driving. his race yesterday was below average, even by his standards: he didn't manage to get alongside Massa notwithstanding the fact that Massa was always very slow out of Becketts (and therefore slow at the end of the Hangar Straight) and the fact that he had a hige advantage thanks to the DRS activation zone being right were Massa was weak, as soon as he was out of the DRS zone he started losing ground and when a few drops of rain started falling he made a fool of himself. Because we have to be honest about that, what happened to him in the damp was not a pretty sight, I can't quite understand what went wrong but the fact that he was nearly 2 seconds per lap slower than Massa (and considering that Massa has never been known as being particularly good in the wet and at silverstone in general means a lot), maybe he had some issue with the car, I don't know, but even factoring in the fact that I don't rate Bottas a great driver by F1 standards I was suprised by his weak performance yesterday, especially in the wet where I thought that he would shine

Kvyat - a couple of extra turns would have mean 5th position for him, he was considerably faster than Bottas at the end, other than that IMHO he drove well, his talent is beginning to shine when compared to his team mate (to be clear, I think that in pure driving terms Kvyat is significantly better than ricciardo, Ricciardo's greatest gift is his approach and his ability to make the most of any situation)

Hulkenberg - another great race for him, I think that his main problem is that his team mate is IMHO another first class driver, so Hulkenberg's achievements don't stand out as much as they should. He deserves a better car.

Raikkonen - he had a very good week end, pity that he lost his cool as soon as the rain started. He seems very weak mentally these days, any minor problems becomes a big issue for him

Perez - another great drive by him, he deserves a better car

Alonso - it's very sad to have to be so upbeat when he manages to finish 10th (thanks mainly to many cars having retired), this situation is unfair for him as well as for us

Mercedes - they should solve their clutch issues because yesterday that put them in a very difficult position, next time they might not be so lucky

Williams - IMHO yesterday drivers like Vettel, Alonso, Hulenberg, Perez and Grosjean would have probably won the race, they need at least one proper driver

McLaren - Ronco should know when it's time to shut up, because in his aegument with Eddie jordan he risks looking ridiculous. They must up their game, they are making many mistakes and getting to the top won't be as easy as they make it look like. And they should be less snob with sponsors, they are not in a position to command big bucks, they need all the resources that they can get, they are no longer a top team, if they can manage to land a decent sponsorship deal like the ones that Force India or Sauber have they should take it and be extremely grateful because next year their finances are going to be a serious issue
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Sakae on Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:10 pm

Personal rating:

Race: 5 points out of 10 max.
Good drives: Hülkenberg, Vettel, Kvyat
?: Ricciardo, Räikkönen
Most improved team(s): Williams, Force India, Toro Rosso
?: Ferrari

And the race in a sentence: might have been something else, but I find hard to take that out of 20 drivers 7 end up DNF, and at least another 3 cars consider a good day merely just not ending up as DNF, and were testing, instead racing. (Manor, Mclaren).
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby IanK on Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:07 am

Paolo 2 wrote:
IanK wrote:Williams blew it by not making Massa let Bottas by about ten laps before either of them stopped.


they had been allowed to race, Bottas tried to pass but didn't have the speed to. And in the end he was 26 seconds off Massa's pace... Bottas only managed to take advantage of Massa's slipstream, as soon as he was out of the DRS zone he started slowly going backwards, well before the track got wet and things went horribly wrong for him. I can't quite understand why we are always making excuses for Bottas, he was slower than his team mate throughout the week end, he had been allowed to race him and despite the huge advantage of the DRS he wasn't able to pass him, and in the end he was one of the slowest cars out there in the wet (sorting the men from the boys anyone?). What we saw yesterday with the Williams is the usual slipstream effect happening all the time in place like Silverstone or Monza, the car behind has a huge advantage but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's faster than the one in front.

Besides, what would have been the reaction had Massa been chasing Bottas? ;)


Well, in all fairness I posted that right after the first round of pit stops, after Hamilton managed to jump them both during their first stops, before Massa started pulling away from his teammate, and well before Bottas came completely undone once it started raining.
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Sakae on Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:44 am

Image
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Paolo 2 on Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:22 am

IanK wrote:
Well, in all fairness I posted that right after the first round of pit stops



fair enough :beer:
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby IanK on Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:30 pm

Mach wrote:
Lawrence wrote:
Mach wrote:I consider Lewis Hamilton the best British race car driver ever :clap:


Stirling Moss?
Jim Clark?
Jackie Stewart?

Yes, better then those three gentlemen who arguable did extremely well in their respective careers according to history books.


How about Jenson Button? He outscored Hamilton in their three years together at McLaren and didn't have the advantage of being connected to them since he was 10.
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Lawrence on Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:37 am

Mach wrote:Yes, better then those three gentlemen who arguable did extremely well in their respective careers according to history books.


Well, each of the three gentlemen I mentioned were pretty much considered the top driver in F1 at the time. Certianly Moss was from 1958-1961. Clark was from 1963-1967 and I gather Stewart was from 1969-1973. Hamilton, on the other hand has had to share the stage with Alonso and Vettel. While you can make arguments as to which of those three is better, it is certainly not clear cut as in the case of Moss or Clark. Added to that, he has not completely dominated his teammates, and some of them have bested him during a season in points (Button) or poles (Rosberg).
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