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Bye bye Kimi?

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

Moderators: Lyria, Mafia, Lawrence, Administrator

Re: Bye bye Kimi?

Postby Sakae on Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:24 am

@ferrari - With the new regime, detectable is change of rhetoric we didn't hear much when Luca Cordero Di Montezemolo was at the helm. Both, Allison and Arrivabene do not hesitate to publicly critique their drivers. I am not much in favor of pretending mistakes do not occur, but hanging dirty laundry in public is not exactly my style either. Allison felt it is necessary to tell us all with a mike in his face, that Kimi is making more mistakes than Seb. I am not entirely certain what was accomplished with that. Maybe drivers should return favor and speak more about Allison's handy work, starting with Spain, mercifully forgiving initial delays of 2015 project. Kimi might not care, but I do suspect that not everyone is cut from the same cloth, and some drivers would find perhaps such comments unprofessional (as in bad management) and demoralizing.
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Re: Bye bye Kimi?

Postby Sakae on Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:30 am

On the back of news that Ferrari have re-signed Kimi Raikkonen, it has been reported that Williams wanted "around £10 million to release" Valtteri Bottas.


Well, now they keep him.
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Re: Bye bye Kimi?

Postby Lyria on Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:15 pm

Sakae wrote:Good catch Lyria. I see this on the internet as well. This explains why Kimi was so relaxed yesterday. Good for Ferrari to cut through the chase, and focus what's really important - P2 in 2015 WCC. I thought announcement will be at Monza, but why hold back. Kimi can now race Seb with mind in the clear.


Thanks Sakae, I just happened to get there as the post had just been made. I was in the right place at the right time for once ;)

Lawrence wrote:Kimi Raikkonen's problem has never been speed. He actually has the second highest number of fastest laps of any who has ever run F1 (only Schumacher has more, and Prost one less). That is 42 fastest laps. Hamilton and Vettel only has 24, Alonso 21 and Senna 19! With 20 wins, 16 poles and a mind-numbing 42 fastest laps, his problems lie someplace other than his speed.


It's his motivation that's the issue I reckon. Now he has another year, will he push as hard in the coming races? Only time will tell on that one.

I think Ferrari realised they couldn't find a decent one year alternative and the drivers they really wanted would be too costly for next season, so they've stuck with Kimi as he knows the team etc. and it's all adds to the stability of things as they're still rebuilding. After 2016 they can then wave him off with a smile and get in someone who they really want, without having to pay a fortune to get them, and they can sign them on a longer term contract. That is how I see it anyway.
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Re: Bye bye Kimi?

Postby Sakae on Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:18 pm

Rumor has it, that he took a pay cut, but I am not sure what to believe anymore. Moreover, it matters not much at the end anyway.
There is a pool of drivers who have received clarity that Ferrari is not going to hire them, and the others - well, they can plan for 2017 shuffle, should they be interested in the red team. I am not running anti-Bottas campaign here, but he is really is off the stage this year.
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Re: Bye bye Kimi?

Postby Lawrence on Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:07 pm

The U.S. TV commentators were indicating that he took a pay for performance arrangement. Not sure if he took a pay cut, but would not be surprised. I suspect one of the reasons he was not sacked was that the price of Bottas was too high. He gets one last year to prove himself, but I suspect he will be gone after 2016.
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Re: Bye bye Kimi?

Postby Lawrence on Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:10 pm

Lyria wrote:It's his motivation that's the issue I reckon.


I think it is more than just motivation. He has always been an odd driver.

I think Ferrari realised they couldn't find a decent one year alternative and the drivers they really wanted would be too costly for next season, so they've stuck with Kimi as he knows the team etc. and it's all adds to the stability of things as they're still rebuilding. After 2016 they can then wave him off with a smile and get in someone who they really want, without having to pay a fortune to get them, and they can sign them on a longer term contract. That is how I see it anyway.


I suspect that is the primary reason. The rumored $10 million payout to Williams for Bottas was probably the deciding factor.
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Re: Bye bye Kimi?

Postby Paolo 2 on Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:07 pm

I saw with interest all your comments on this matter and there is one thing that strikes me: everybody seems to suggest that an extension for Raikkonen means that he's a strong performer. I'd say that we have to consider the possibility that it's the other way round: Raikkonen's new deal might just be that they don't want any fuss between their drivers in a year that looks crucial for closing the gap with Mercedes. Raikkonen gets along well with Vettal and his pace is simply nowhere near as good as Vettel's, he's never been able to challenge Vettel or get anywhere near him. In a sense the fact that Raikkonen no longer has what it takes to be a frontrunner could be the very reason why he's been retained: he's never going to become a source of problems within the team (the fact that he's so obviously a liability is another matter).

Plus who could have been drafted in at Maranello? The obvious name would have been Bianchi, he had been groomed for that role for years, and we all know what happened. Hulkenberg is German as is Vettel and at Ferrari they made it clear that they don't want 2 German drivers (for commercial reasons), Perez has been tarnished for years for reasons that don't always look entirely convincing to me, Grosjean is good but possibly not stellar and he certainly doesn't look like the kind of man who is happy with being a #2 so why bother with him?), Verstappen is too young as is Sainz, and both could potentially have created some issues to Vettel. And finally there was Bottas... seriously guys...

What has Bottas achieved to be ranked as a great driver? I just can't quite understand it, I am seriously struggling with this one. But the spin doctors have been making so much of a fuss over Bottas that we all take for granted that he's the next Ayrton Senna, but what I'd like to ask you is this: who has ever praised Bottas as a great driver? I can only remember Toto Wolff and Mika Hakkinen: both are part of Bottas' management team and have therefore a significant interest in him, and in every other walk of life would be considered too much conflicted in this issue to be taken seriously. So was Bottas really deserving a Ferrari seat? IMHO no, he probably doesn't even deserve to be at Williams (I'm not blaming him for what happened at that pit stop, obviously, but he still was a laughing stock this afternoon, he just couldn't make the most of that high downforce at the rear configuration that Williams was running, probably in order to look after they rear tyres)

IMHO the only question is whether Raikkonen will be able to get to the end of his Ferrari contract, I just can't see the Italian press pretending that all is well when Raikkonen keeps on being such a liability (today he was quite simply shocking, an undignified show that IMHO cannot go on for long). Ferrari being Ferrari this saga might just end up with the Scuderia having to pay him extra money to terminate Raikkonen's contract early (maybe even before the end of the 2015 season)
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Re: Bye bye Kimi?

Postby Sakae on Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:52 am

Paolo 2 wrote:I saw with interest all your comments on this matter and there is one thing that strikes me: everybody seems to suggest that an extension for Raikkonen means that he's a strong performer. I'd say that we have to consider the possibility that it's the other way round: Raikkonen's new deal might just be that they don't want any fuss between their drivers in a year that looks crucial for closing the gap with Mercedes. Raikkonen gets along well with Vettal and his pace is simply nowhere near as good as Vettel's, he's never been able to challenge Vettel or get anywhere near him. In a sense the fact that Raikkonen no longer has what it takes to be a frontrunner could be the very reason why he's been retained: he's never going to become a source of problems within the team (the fact that he's so obviously a liability is another matter).

Plus who could have been drafted in at Maranello? The obvious name would have been Bianchi, he had been groomed for that role for years, and we all know what happened. Hulkenberg is German as is Vettel and at Ferrari they made it clear that they don't want 2 German drivers (for commercial reasons), Perez has been tarnished for years for reasons that don't always look entirely convincing to me, Grosjean is good but possibly not stellar and he certainly doesn't look like the kind of man who is happy with being a #2 so why bother with him?), Verstappen is too young as is Sainz, and both could potentially have created some issues to Vettel. And finally there was Bottas... seriously guys...

What has Bottas achieved to be ranked as a great driver? I just can't quite understand it, I am seriously struggling with this one. But the spin doctors have been making so much of a fuss over Bottas that we all take for granted that he's the next Ayrton Senna, but what I'd like to ask you is this: who has ever praised Bottas as a great driver? I can only remember Toto Wolff and Mika Hakkinen: both are part of Bottas' management team and have therefore a significant interest in him, and in every other walk of life would be considered too much conflicted in this issue to be taken seriously. So was Bottas really deserving a Ferrari seat? IMHO no, he probably doesn't even deserve to be at Williams (I'm not blaming him for what happened at that pit stop, obviously, but he still was a laughing stock this afternoon, he just couldn't make the most of that high downforce at the rear configuration that Williams was running, probably in order to look after they rear tyres)

IMHO the only question is whether Raikkonen will be able to get to the end of his Ferrari contract, I just can't see the Italian press pretending that all is well when Raikkonen keeps on being such a liability (today he was quite simply shocking, an undignified show that IMHO cannot go on for long). Ferrari being Ferrari this saga might just end up with the Scuderia having to pay him extra money to terminate Raikkonen's contract early (maybe even before the end of the 2015 season)

Interesting comment, but, as the (yours) rhetorical question stands, "Plus who could have been drafted in at Maranello"? It was actually Allison, who stated, having access to data, that Kimi is as fast as Seb, but Seb makes less mistakes. As far as we know, there is no better replacement available at the moment, but I am not sure what will change next year. There was the publicly repeated nonsense for years, that Alonso gets out of the car 120% of its performance. In reality, Ferrari has improved in comparison to last year, but how much? Perhaps what we are seeing is, that despite car is actually not that good, Sebastian simply gets almost all out of it what is mechanically possible. I do suspect that Ferrari is aware that Vettel is flattering vehicle performance, whereas Kimi while he had his issues, who can say that someone like Bottas would have been any better? To sit this one out for another year seem the only sensible option they really had.
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Re: Bye bye Kimi?

Postby Lawrence on Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:48 pm

Well, I think there are over a half-dozen good developing drivers out there, but it is not clear who is the best choice. That list would certainly include Grosjean, Perez, Hulkenburg, Ricciardo, Kvyat, Verstappen, Sainz, Bottas, and certainly Nasr. Who is the best of choice for Ferrari of those 9? That is hard to say. I suspect if Ferrari waits until 2016...if will be able to pick whoever it wants from that list (and Bottas will be $10 million cheaper).

So yea, waiting a year makes sense.
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Re: Bye bye Kimi?

Postby Mach on Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:53 am

Can't find another string to post this....and I really don't feel like trolling...

Thai beer sponsors Raikkonen AND Iceman Long Drink gin too :beer:
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Re: Bye bye Kimi?

Postby Lawrence on Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:48 am

Mach wrote:Thai beer sponsors Raikkonen AND Iceman Long Drink gin too :beer:


Kimi does have a reputation.
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Re: Bye bye Kimi?

Postby Sakae on Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:27 am

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Re: Bye bye Kimi?

Postby Mach on Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:14 pm



In my mind, Kimi's not a donkey. He's a WDC rehired by a top F1 team. Many F1 and non-F1 drivers would give their hind teeth to drive for Ferrari. Plus, said team issued an apology to Kimi upon his return.

I guess only a farm-boy like Ted Kravitz would know what a donkey's really like.

I'm not sure why Damon Hill is so worried? He doesn't have to live up to daddy's expectations anymore.

Only Martin Brundle, within this "respected" group of reporters, would truly know what a #2 driver is. Especially considering Brundle never won a WDC.

I say it's time for the media and would be driver-agents to start slagging some other WDC for a change.

I would then retort with the same venom flavor :hit:
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Re: Bye bye Kimi?

Postby Sakae on Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:33 pm

We are both on the same page, Mach.
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Re: Bye bye Kimi?

Postby Mach on Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:25 pm

Sakae wrote:We are both on the same page, Mach.
:beer:
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