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F1 Perspectives

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

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Re: F1 Perspectives

Postby Lawrence on Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:13 pm

I gather the GPDA is.... which does represent most of the current drivers.
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Re: F1 Perspectives

Postby Sakae on Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:30 pm

Research here, research there, however I am not taking this initiative as permanent feature until (a) drivers use it for a year or so, and (b) consensus will be reached that positives outweigh negatives. It is not a solution without flaws. Problem is, not every driver has enough foresight in him to evaluate rationally potential scenarios, thus they will be swayed by loudest voices. I bet if you ask Massa, he will be for it, but if you ask Webber, he will most likely not. People will reach deep into their personal history, and think about it along those lines.
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Re: F1 Perspectives

Postby Paolo 2 on Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:30 pm

Lawrence wrote:This may happen: https://www.yahoo.com/autos/formula-1-drivers-call-closed-cockpits-name-safety-143043085.html

Actually, I always wondered if Formula One cars should not be full bodied with the wheels enclosed. This would certainly improve safety (would have kept Senna alive), and I always felt full-bodied cars looked better than open-wheeled cars (and have more advertising space).


that wouldn't have kept Senna alive because Senna was killed by a very small fragment from his front suspension, it might have kept Justin Wilson or Henry Surtees alive though, I personally wouldn't have liked it for two reasons: first I have always hated anything that could have an impact on my view of what was going on around me and second I fear that if you roll your car there are circumstances where you won't be able to get out on your own with a device like that. This is obviously very personal, I have seen that some drivers are in favour (Button and Hamilton) while others are against (Hulkenberg), I think that it all depends on what you fear in certain situations, one of the things that I have always thought very scary was something along the lines of what happend to Dr. Marko or what happened to Massa a few years ago, being hit by a tyre on my head is something that I have never considered likely (and I was probably wrong, but there you go)
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Re: F1 Perspectives

Postby Lawrence on Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:49 pm

Paolo 2 wrote:that wouldn't have kept Senna alive because Senna was killed by a very small fragment from his front suspension...


Just to clarify, I was not saying the Halo would have protected Senna, I was saying that having full-fendered cars would have protected Senna. I am not sure how much additional protection the Halo offers. Not sure it would have protected Massa.
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Re: F1 Perspectives

Postby Sakae on Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:48 am

Halo concept is not what Massa originally was in favor off. Language used then by him was "fully enclosed canopies", and Halo is of course not that. I am actually not sure what is that solution suppose to accomplish.
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Re: F1 Perspectives

Postby Paolo 2 on Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:04 pm

Lawrence wrote:
Paolo 2 wrote:that wouldn't have kept Senna alive because Senna was killed by a very small fragment from his front suspension...


Just to clarify, I was not saying the Halo would have protected Senna, I was saying that having full-fendered cars would have protected Senna. I am not sure how much additional protection the Halo offers. Not sure it would have protected Massa.


ok, I get your point and I agree with it. I think that the problem with full bodied cars is that they would be considerably quicker than the current F1s, they could easily gain 5 or 6 seconds per lap, it would be a quantum leap for F1, they would have to come up with up with something with very small engines. Other than that we already have WEC (and the last time that F1 and prototypes had similar engines prototypes were much faster than F1 and in effect they as popular as, if not more than, F1).

I think that Halo would protect you against accidents similar to Justin Wilson's, provided that the debris caused by the impact with the Halo doesn't hit a driver in the head, at those speeds even a smallish bit of debris might be fatal
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Re: F1 Perspectives

Postby Lawrence on Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:21 pm

Sakae wrote:Halo concept is not what Massa originally was in favor off. Language used then by him was "fully enclosed canopies", and Halo is of course not that. I am actually not sure what is that solution suppose to accomplish.


More than nothing....less than everything. It is a compromise solution.

Actually, fully enclosed cockpits were tested during Stirling Moss's day. Of course, the reason was for better aerodynamics (vice safety). I gather the problem was that the cockpit got too hot.

But I don't think a Halo would have protected Massa, except by happenstance. On the other hand, maybe a much taller windscreen, protected by a forward roll-bar and with a much larger canopy opening to compensate, might also work.
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Re: F1 Perspectives

Postby Lawrence on Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:25 pm

Paolo 2 wrote:I think that the problem with full bodied cars is that they would be considerably quicker than the current F1s, they could easily gain 5 or 6 seconds per lap, it would be a quantum leap for F1, they would have to come up with up with something with very small engines. Other than that we already have WEC (and the last time that F1 and prototypes had similar engines prototypes were much faster than F1 and in effect they as popular as, if not more than, F1).


Yes to both points. Of course, I would take the wings off, solving several problems. Actually, in 1955 Mercedes raced a full bodied formula-one car, using it for the faster circuits but not the slower ones. They are a thing of beauty. A full-bodied car just looks better than an open-wheeled car.
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Re: F1 Perspectives

Postby Mach on Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:33 pm

Sorry Lawrence, looks like Mercedes changed the F1 vision after they hired Michael Schumacher and produced, with an enormous budget mind you, the essence of what F1 has become......and Road cars too. Basically a vehicle to transport people with minimal input from the latter. Kind of sucks now to get into a car with little control of clutch and stick shift being replaced with paddles.
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Re: F1 Perspectives

Postby Lawrence on Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:48 pm

Mach wrote:Kind of sucks now to get into a car with little control of clutch and stick shift being replaced with paddles.


Yes, but I don't buy those cars. To start with, they tend to be expensive.
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