ad
Countdown to 2016 Australian Grandprix:
2016 Formula1 World Championship Calendar

Australia | Bahrain | China | Russia | Spain | Monaco | Canada | Baku | Austria | Great Britain | Hungary | Germany | Belgium | Italy | Singapore | Malaysia | Japan | USA | Mexico | Brazil | Abu Dhabi

Red Bull Crisis?

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

Moderators: Lyria, Mafia, Lawrence, Administrator

Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Lawrence on Fri May 30, 2014 5:17 pm

I just noted the latest insanity from Dr. Helmut Marko: http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns28142.html

Seriously, is Red Bull going to bill it's engine supplier for poor performance? Has this ever been done before? Wasn't this supposed to be a "team" effort? How is Renault going to respond to such a billing? What precedence would it set?

Red Bull continues its very public and unseemly war with Renault. I get the impression that they will either jettison Renault for a new engine manufacturer (one currently not in F1) or have to continue another year with Renault. Meanwhile Newey and other staff are entertaining offers from other organizations that have a good engine and a lot less drama. Could we being seeing the break up of the classic Red Bull team that propelled Vettel to four world championships? Newey leaves for 2015....Red Bull changes engines in 2015 or 2016....Vettel bails in 2016 as the team continues to struggle....other staff start being bribed over to other teams.....

It is beginning to look like Red Bull's short-term problem is turning into a long-term crisis.


Just to quote Marko: "The image damage is already beyond repair."
"To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
User avatar
Lawrence
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 10465
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:01 am
Location: United States --- Washington DC

Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby f1datavis on Fri May 30, 2014 6:06 pm

And rumours of McLaren dream team constructed out of the ashes...

All rumour and innuendo, except for Mad Marko and his inability to keep prevent a constant stream of consciousness being printed wholesale in Bild. Seriously, is his mother the owner or something?
User avatar
f1datavis
 
Posts: 1100
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: Northamptonshire, UK

Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Lawrence on Fri May 30, 2014 6:10 pm

f1datavis wrote:Seriously, is his mother the owner or something?


Best explanation I have heard so far.
"To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
User avatar
Lawrence
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 10465
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:01 am
Location: United States --- Washington DC

Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Sakae on Fri May 30, 2014 7:06 pm

Marko is right about the image issue, though. How do you put a value on that? We do not have exact transcrip what was said, and in what context, so, who knows. What we do know however is, that RB aided Renault on sidelines on software side, and perhaps there are some billable hours for that, but in 2013 they all knew exposure to a such risk, and that's it. Best response what RB can do in current situation is to win another WDC/WCC with, or without Renault. (This man is actually a Doctor of Law, and there has to be some calculated kick in this by him to get attention at Renault's upper floor).
Whatever you do, don’t just do it. Push it forward! [Whitelines]
Sakae
 
Posts: 3944
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: EU

Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Lawrence on Sat May 31, 2014 2:48 am

Sakae wrote:Marko is right about the image issue, though.


Yea, I actually don't know what Red Bull's image is. They and F1 don't have a big marketing present over here...so they are just another drink in the store. They are in their 10th season in F1. I gather they tried to originally market themselves as a fun team with their various press announcements, but they have looked rather intense over the last five years. The team appears to be built around a lot of money, Adrian Newey and Sebastian Vettel, and I don't see much image beyond that. Perhaps I am too isolated from the European and international marketplace. Lately, they have been coming off as a bunch of whiney dicks. That is certainly not the fault of Renault (other than giving them one more thing to whine about).

Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes and Wiliams have clear images. Not sure what Red Bull's image is.
"To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
User avatar
Lawrence
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 10465
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:01 am
Location: United States --- Washington DC

Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Sakae on Sat May 31, 2014 5:50 am

Oh I am sure they have (non F1) image, as other drink companies have. It may not be part of your scene (nor mine for that matter), but surely there are some people who do buy that stuff, otherwise DM would not be what he is. As a way of counter example, Pepsi has its image as well, which they cultivate their own peculiar way, yet I can't stand it. I remained whole my life a Coca Cola man (despite that my liver might take me most likely to the woodshed later). 8)
Whatever you do, don’t just do it. Push it forward! [Whitelines]
Sakae
 
Posts: 3944
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: EU

Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Lawrence on Sat May 31, 2014 3:33 pm

Actually, as far as I can tell, Coke does not real damage. Who knows about Red Bull.
"To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
User avatar
Lawrence
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 10465
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:01 am
Location: United States --- Washington DC

Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Lawrence on Sat May 31, 2014 3:37 pm

The front page has an interesting article: http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns28141.html

Relevant passages are:

Recently, Dennis told an Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera that he wants to sign one of F1's very best drivers, singling out Fernando Alonso and Sebastian Vettel as fitting the bill.

And Italy's Omnicorse has raised even wilder speculation about McLaren's future, claiming Honda is eyeing the Red Bull dream-team of Vettel, Adrian Newey and even team boss Christian Horner.


Also of note is that Ron Dennis is increasing his stake in the team to 50%...which I think is good for the longivity of the team. It didn't work to well without an actively engaged owner/manager.
"To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
User avatar
Lawrence
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 10465
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:01 am
Location: United States --- Washington DC

Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Sakae on Sat May 31, 2014 4:30 pm

I can't justify it, but based on my gut feeling only, I don't think Vettel would get fair (denotes driver equal) treatment at McLaren.
Whatever you do, don’t just do it. Push it forward! [Whitelines]
Sakae
 
Posts: 3944
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: EU

Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Lawrence on Sat May 31, 2014 8:20 pm

Well, McLaren has won 12 world championships....every time with one of the best drivers in the field: Fittipaldi, Hunt, Lauda, Prost, Senna, Hakkinen and Hamilton. I suspect he feels he needs another great driver, and Button is not quite that person, and Magnussan is good, but hasn't made the same impression his first year as Hamilton has.....so I have no doubt he is shopping for Alonso (who tried to blackmail him) or Vettel. I am sure he will value him.

Now there have been accusations in the past that Ron Deniis favored Senna over Prost and Hamilton over Alonso, but I really don't know how true they are, or whether they made a difference in the results. I find it hard to believe he would favor Magnussen/Button over Alonso or Vettel, considering which driver will actually bring him the title.
"To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
User avatar
Lawrence
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 10465
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:01 am
Location: United States --- Washington DC

Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Sakae on Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:37 pm

Button then will be forced out?
Whatever you do, don’t just do it. Push it forward! [Whitelines]
Sakae
 
Posts: 3944
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: EU

Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Lawrence on Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:47 pm

Well, that is the interesting question. I don't know if Button has a contract next year. I am sure they could boot Magnussen anytime they wanted to.

But if Red Bull still has the Renault engine next year (most likely) and Ferrari is not returning to competitiveness (also pretty likely), and the two seats at Mercedes are locked up (almost certianly)....then McLaren-Honda is going to start looking pretty attractive for Alonso and Vettel. Maybe Ron could take them both (now there is an explosive mixture). ;)

Williams and Force India may also be able to pick and choose drivers (assuming Mercedes remains the dominant engine).
"To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
User avatar
Lawrence
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 10465
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:01 am
Location: United States --- Washington DC

Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Lawrence on Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:51 pm

Yea, Button is in an option year on his contract, so he can be easily replaced in 2015: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109387
"To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
User avatar
Lawrence
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 10465
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:01 am
Location: United States --- Washington DC

Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Mafia on Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:45 pm

:armchair:

Reports of secret Red Bull test emerge

Reports of a secret Red Bull test are starting to emerge in the wake of a Bild newspaper report claiming that the reigning world champion team undertook testing indoors at the Austrian company AVL’s rolling road facility in Graz.

The six-day test, involving Red Bull’s troubled engine supplier Renault, reportedly occurred between the last pre-season track test in Bahrain and the start of the season in Australia.

Reports of the illegal test began to circulate after someone leaked correspondence to the FIA as well as the Mercedes, Ferrari and Sauber teams.

Auto Bild reports that the test actually involved Red Bull’s junior team, Toro Rosso, who have been deeply involved in the efforts to pull Renault out of its pre-season technical crisis.

According to technical pundit Matt Somerfield Red Bull have denied being part of the test, which would suggest that Toro Rosso were involved instead.

But Red Bull test driver Antonio Felix da Costa had tweeted in early March that he was headed to Austria for a ’5 day trip’.

“Spending the weekend in Graz, Austria,” he added two days later. “Not by choice though!”
Tough Luck!
User avatar
Mafia
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:01 am
Location: Canada

Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Sakae on Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:11 pm

Looks like past several years of RB's success is choking a few people, and getting these guys out of the way is one method how to defeat them, be it on, or off the track. Well, main thing is, all of the others are pure as white snow.
Whatever you do, don’t just do it. Push it forward! [Whitelines]
Sakae
 
Posts: 3944
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: EU

Next

Return to Formula One Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron

Copyright 1988-2011, Inside F1, Inc.