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Sebastian Vettel

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

Moderators: Lyria, Mafia, Lawrence, Administrator

Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Lyria on Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:37 am

Lawrence wrote:
Lyria wrote:See some people have told me Vettel isn't that good...


Actually, I don't think anyone on this board has said that,


Well I could name a few who have used this board who have said that, no one who currently posts on a regular basis though. Actually I was thinking of one of my friends in particular, who I actually met on here years ago and who no longer comes here, when I made that post. Not that you guys could have known that, sorry.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Lawrence on Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:17 pm

Lyria wrote:Well I could name a few who have used this board who have said that...


I think it is pretty obvious that Vettel is one of the best 3-5 drivers in F1. One can argue where he stands versus Hamilton, Alonso, Rosberg and DR....but he clearly established himself to be better than Webber and Raikonnen, and they are/were drivers of some ability.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Sakae on Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:11 am

There is certain degree of intellectual dishonesty in judging Vettel by different measures than names mentioned. In critical frame discussion this is in NO SYSTEM category that calls for subjective preferences, concluded with subjective opinion, and therefore cannot be (objectively) assessed. The man is in F1 as an active driver circa nine years, won four WDC under highly contested conditions, he is not underperforming in sub-par machinery, won a race in mid-field car, so what's the problem other than side-motives I would rather not think off.

Other than being an Australian, DR won nothing yet, and has his scalp groomed pretty well by the Russian driver. Neither Hamilton nor Alonso won any WDC whilst team-mates, and finally, since when the mantra that a driver has to be judged only by his teammate amounts to anything but an object of convenience for maligned discussion? Take current TR drivers. One is touted as the greatest thing after slice bread, and other one is pushed back, yet look on Sainz atrocious series of problems he has with his car, but is he so much worse than MV? Too early to say, but he is not one to be overlook as a great one as well.

Hamilton, without any doubt, confirmed by Lowe, had a capable car beneath him more than once or twice, and lost races against Vettel during McLaren years. Hamilton lost a race or two with his rocket ship too against Vettel. Value of Hamilton's three WDC(s) trophies are really for a debate (lucking into first one, and now question is, is it him or a car, and would Maldonado do any worse with it?). Hamilton has also behind him a season or two when he went into pieces, just as Alonso lives on cocktails of the past, without having any substantial results to actually show for, does he, but mantra of greatness lives on. Internet is our big friend, but sometimes a b**ch, when it is hard to convince people who do not wish to be convinced, thus we can just shrug our shoulders, and say - forget it.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Willie Caja on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:38 am

I will never be sure of any driver who's only been in one dominan team (always keeping in mind that these are the best drivers in the world, except for Maldonado :hit: ).
I had my doubts about Hamilton in the past, but have been convinced of his talent when he switched to Mercedes.
I had doubts about Vettel, and now I',m convinced he's got talent (though I still think Alonso is better :p ).

That said, Ferrari was the only team getting near Mercedes this year, and still they were unable to win. Sebastian was only able to get third position in the driver's championship. So, unless Ferrari does something special during the winter, it'll still be the same old business as when Alonso was there... Let's see if they can catch up, and win a Championship.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Mach on Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:54 am

Willie Caja wrote:So, unless Ferrari does something special during the winter, it'll still be the same old business as when Alonso was there... Let's see if they can catch up, and win a Championship.

Let's hope both McLaren and Ferrari do something special next year to spice things up for a more competitive 2016 season.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Sakae on Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:02 am

Vettel not taking bait after Hamilton comments

“I think in the end any comparison between drivers is always very difficult to do,” Vettel added.
En savoir plus sur http://www.thisisf1.com/2015/12/07/vett ... CvRHZPW.99


That's what I thought. Reasons are numerous, and technically sound.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Lawrence on Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:17 pm

“It’s difficult to assess how good he really is”....funny that is what I have been saying for several years.

I don't rule out that Vettel is not the greatest F1 driver of all time, as he would have to be if he was notably better than Hamilton and Alonso (who most objective observers consider to be really very, very good). By the same token, I do not rule out that he is not as fast as Hamilton and Alonso as we really have no way of knowing. My suspicion is that all three drivers are roughly equal and each have their flaws and limitations. In fact, I am beginning to wonder Senna-Prost pairing may not be stronger overall than the Hamilton-Alonso-Vettel trio.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Sakae on Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:15 pm

Any team I can think off has not managed to keep both drivers happy by equal measure. The car invariably suits to one driver more than to his team-mate as we are all different. Last year Newey was quite rude to Vettel (at least on one occasion), when Sebastian wanted a different setup and Newey couldn't comply for some reason. These last a few days we have Hamilton complaining quite publicly, that he could not win last three races because setup was more to Rosberg liking (it began I think after FiA clarified air pressure regulations), and we heard more or less the same story in the case of Alonso and Kimi, how much 2014 Ferrari was designed for, and setup made to suit Alonso's driving style, ignoring Kimi altogether.

Point is, variables do exists, cars are similar in many aspects, but never the same, thus I prefer to look at some drivers how they behaved, and performed over their whole career. The driver I watch closely is performing pretty good, and that's good enough for me. I am not in a position however to judge anyone.

Add.

This is how motorsport.com judged DR in post-season 2015 review:
He may have been out-done by Kvyat on points, but his drive in Singapore and that mixed-conditions stint in Austin show just how good the guy is when the car works.
Media rated him higher than Russian, despite that DK beat on points. No such courtesy however to Vettel last year.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Sakae on Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:07 pm

F1Technical:
The legendary champion Sir Jackie Stewart revealed in an interview with Sky that he is fan of Sebastian Vettel and he expects more titles from the German if Ferrari could make a final step on the technical front.
The three-time champion sees similarities between Sebastian Vettel and Alain Prost as the German "never overdrives". "He drives smoothly and cleanly. I would drive in the same way if I were a racing driver nowdays."

Music to my ears.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Mach on Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:17 pm

Lawrence wrote:“It’s difficult to assess how good he really is”....funny that is what I have been saying for several years.

I don't rule out that Vettel is not the greatest F1 driver of all time, as he would have to be if he was notably better than Hamilton and Alonso (who most objective observers consider to be really very, very good). By the same token, I do not rule out that he is not as fast as Hamilton and Alonso as we really have no way of knowing. My suspicion is that all three drivers are roughly equal and each have their flaws and limitations. In fact, I am beginning to wonder Senna-Prost pairing may not be stronger overall than the Hamilton-Alonso-Vettel trio.
Impossibel to figure out which of these 5 individuals was/is the fastest. Would be nice to have a time machine and have them each drive the McLaren MP4/4 at every circuit available.

I think Michael Schumacher would have posted the best time followed by Kimi Raikkonen then followed by the 5 aforementioned drivers. :tophat:
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Sakae on Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:36 pm

My definition of the "fastest" driver for a specific set of condition is one, which takes race winners into consideration.

A drive who covers race distance in shortest time of them all, which, by definition makes him a winner, and fastest one for a day - all quantitaive parameters. Problem with application of this criterium is, there are too many variables involved why others lagging behind, and it is not always down to lack of skills to derive any objective conclusion on a sample of just a few races. Reaching however total career numbers close to 250 and up race entries, now we are talking about having good yardstick and profile of a racing driver!

Being in the same team is not enough for fair assessment. Alonso is yammering how he destroyed Kimi last year, yet from several interviews it is only now coming out, that car was designed to fully support Spaniard's driving style, and to Räikkönen's detriment. This year, both drivers have however similar set up preferences, and it is closer.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Sakae on Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:17 am

A driver of the 2015 season - Vettel (voted by GP247 readership)

http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/12/31/driver-of-the-year-sebastian-vettel/

Congratulation on job well done, Happy New Year, and good reliability in forthcoming season, Seb.

Now, we want more ... :hungry:
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